Q+A’s Panel Discussions with Paul Holmes, Dr Jon Johansson, Deborah Coddington & Bob Harvey.

The panel discussions have been transcribed below. The full length video interviews and panel discussions from this morning’s Q+A can also be seen on tvnz.co.nz at, http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news

Q+A is repeated on TVNZ 7 at 9.10pm on Sunday nights and 10.10am and 2.10pm on Mondays.

PANEL DISCUSSIONS led by PAUL HOLMES

Response to COMMISSIONER HOWARD BROAD interview

PAUL Prevention, prevention, prevention, is one of the things the Commissioner seemed very keen on.

JON JOHANSSON – Political Analyst

Yeah indeed, but you know I was staggered there to learn 18% of their Police budget's going to sort of alcohol related crimes and what have you, but it's just such a complex area right, I mean inequality is at the root of it, and the Police can only deal with the consequences of that inequality but we are I think a violent country, in fact I think that’s been our history, we were known as the hell hole in the Pacific, you know back in the early 19th century, so maybe it's functions of our geography and our socialisation and the socio economic plight of people, but it's creating such a you know generational and enduring legacy, that you know one wonders really – you know you’ve gotta have empathy for the Police here in just doing what they can do.

PAUL Are we a violent country Deborah Coddington, are we any more violent than anyone else?

DEBORAH CODDINGTON – Former ACT MP

Oh yes I think we are a violent country but it was interesting listening to Howard Broad talk about deterrents in crime prevention because last year I listened to a speech by Eric Holder, Obama's Attorney General in Chicago, and he talked about they're abandoning the three strikes because when that was brought in it did work for a while, crime did go down, but then it plateaued and now it's going up to the situation now where one in every 100 adults in the United States is incarcerated, now that’s a terrible statistic, one in every 100 adults and most of it is recidivism, you know they come out and they commit a crime and they go back, and the pockets where prevention is working is where they have prison education, drug and alcohol treatment, in prisons, and workplace schemes in prisons. So they are now working towards that, they are adopting those, and those are the areas where they are having people come out and where crime is going down, and what we have to look at is do we want – we've got to abandon this tough, the sensible sentencing sort of vengeance, this private vengeance, and three strikes and you're out – do we want the situation where we have bad from bad or do we want good from bad and I think we want good from bad.

PAUL Do I take it we've gone away from ACT policy?

DEBORAH That was never ACT policy.

PAUL Three strikes?

DEBORAH No it wasn’t, this is new ACT, this was not old ACT, ACT was a liberal party?

BOB Is there a difference?

DEBORAH It is a difference yes.

PAUL What did you take from the Howard Broad interview Bob?

BOB HARVEY – Waitakere City Mayor

Well I think prevention is the whole answer, I mean I'm on my fourth year of it's not okay, the most dangerous place in New Zealand is in the home, 80% I think of all cops racing around our towns are going to domestic violence, and that’s why Whanau Ora may really pull it off, wrapping around the violent families and the families that are simply malfunctioning. Well I think that they need support and they need help and they need it now. I mean I've cleaned up all the graffiti out of Waitakere because it's a dangerous kind of sign that creates an element of unsafe cities, and I've pulled the Gun Show. The Gun Show in Waitakere in the West Wave Centre is huge, I've thought enough of that, after the Hokitika shootings I thought – I told the Council this week, no more bookings for the Gun Show. I mean I know there's a whole lot of responsible gun owners, of course there is, but hey the signal is – I'm over it.

PAUL You are sending a signal that’s right. So to distil it all to be nice and simple about it, should we simply get tougher, do longer sentences, lock people up, throw away the damn key?

JON You can't do that.

DEBORAH There are some people – there's a hard core that you have to keep them locked up to keep people safe, but it's not a one size fits all.

JON In this society do we believe in the quality of redemption and if we do then we need to put the money into rehabilitation resources.

PAUL There are no resources in the prisons really for drug rehabilitation.

DEBORAH There's none, no, I has to be a minimum of I think it's four or five years imprisonment before you qualify.

PAUL Howard Broad made a very good point too about when we were at university in the old days and we were drinking 4% beer, you know you'd go down the pub and get a jug of 4% beer, these Alco pops that girls, teenagers are drinking are revolting, should they be withdrawn.

BOB They're revolting to us, but not when you're young, not when you're teenagers, and up the road here from these studios you can buy beer 13% now. Now that’s loaded that’s dynamite, that’s what's happening now.

DEBORAH Yeah well I think it's time middle class parents took some responsibility for what their kids are doing, you can't just blame the Police all the time, Courtenay Place is a disgrace, and that’s a local body issue, the Council should clean it up.

BOB Couldn’t agree more.

PAUL Guyon was talking about whether the Police have enough Maori in them, and certainly there's well an antipathy perhaps between Maori generally and the Police, and Howard Broad had this to say.

Howard Broad: 'If it was a straight out choice, all other things being equal we'd go for the Maori probably, but we don’t have a proactive programme or positive discrimination programme for doing that.'

PAUL We're getting a bit of feedback coming in as a matter of fact on the emails and the texts already that sound a little bit racist, but do we have enough Maori in the Police, do we have enough Pacific Islanders, Indians.

JON Well the answer is no, and not just talking about ethnicity but what about women as well cos you know you're talking about the Police culture and yes some women are now rising through the ranks, but I'm still uncertain as to just how much they're now becoming a stable part of the workforce there, and Asian they’ve always had trouble recruiting Asian.

BOB And I think there should be more Asians in the Police Force. He's actually talking about would they stop a carload of Maori, or a carload of Pakehas.

PAUL Could I get a yes or not from each of you on that? Would they be more likely stopped if they were a carload of Maori or a carload of European?

BOB At three o'clock in the morning they'd stop the Maori.

JON 3.30 they'd still stop them.

DEBORAH Well I think they'd stop them, I agree with Howard Broad, whoever was likely to commit a robbery they'd stop them.

PAUL Well how do you know of they're gonna commit a robbery?

*********

In response to COREY HINDERSTEIN & LT.GEN. GARD interview

PAUL Let's hear from General Gard again before we start the panel, when I said to him why haven't the terrorists got nuclear weapons already, here's what he said.

General Gard: 'I think it's just dumb luck on our part that they haven't.'

PAUL So there you go just dumb luck, do you agree with that?

BOB I'd have to say that I'm pleased that John Key is there, because New Zealanders had a nuclear threat for years with the French testing in the Pacific, but I thought Gard was kinda right and kinda wrong. Let's talk about Pakistan and India, they have certainly got nuclear weapons, and Israel, I mean the Mayors of the World and I'm one of these four thousand mayors, we're meeting in New York to say by 2020 it's over, we don’t want nuclear weapons around. I think that that is the only way.

PAUL But in fairness what's gonna happen this week, Hu Jintao of China is there, the President of Pakistan is going to be there.

BOB I don’t think China's a threat particularly, but there's a lot of crazies around Paul.

PAUL But what I'm saying is 47 leaders coming to Washington DC this week, there is buy in.

JON Yeah and I think the big development has been, and this is why it was timely for Obama that Start Treaty with Russia because you can't actually got all these other nations to the table, because the preponderance of nuclear weapons are held in Russia the US, so you’ve gotta reduce that before you can actually make it a multi lateral...

DEBORAH They’ve gotta take the moral high ground.

JON Yeah, you betcha.

PAUL That’s right, set the example. A comment from you on George Shultz, Henry Kissinger and former Secretary of State Perry, buying into this idea that we don’t need it any more so get rid of them, you can't deter what's in the world at the moment with nuclear bombs.

JON That’s right the nuclear posture review, it's very important that it's now elevated, that dumb luck, that says a lot right, that’s too much uncertainty for policy makers. So you know but Obama I think has a very sophisticated long view gain of this, and really Schultz supporting Obama and in saying the Reagan would support what Obama's up to, gives him a lot of – you know it'll help it get through the ...

PAUL And Rekovic....

DEBORAH There were so many near misses and now this guy's saying it's just dumb luck, but the deterrent doesn’t work because there's nowhere to run to there's no home state for terrorists.

PAUL There is no return address I think is the key ..

PAUL Right the week ahead what are we expecting Robert?

BOB Well I've been chairing a panel of experts like Hamish Keith and Dick Frizzell on the Auckland logo, it may be the first and the best thing that Auckland sees about the Super City. Tomorrow we sit in judgement, we've found a couple of great little looks, that will replace all the logos and we'll be seeing it in about ten days time and you might even like and love to get a tat.

JON My eyes will be on Washington and to see how John Key represents because we are actually a symbol of where the world wants to get to, and let's see how well John Key represents the symbolism of our anti nuclear policy.

DEBORAH Well going back to what you started off with the Pope's in real trouble, Ratzinger, I think he'll be gone and we'll be looking for smoke coming out of the chimney.

PAUL When will be gone do you think?

DEBORAH It's the sliced bread theory, they’ve got more on him, it's coming out bit by bit, I don’t know when he'll be gone but he'll be gone.

PAUL I would say by the end of next European winter.

ENDS

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