'The Nation'

Roger Fowler & David Zwartz

Interviewed By Sean Plunket

SEAN In the past week you’ve been asked to give again to a group called Kia Ora Gaza. They tell us they're a group of Kiwis joining an international aid convoy to deliver humanitarian supplies to the needy of Gaza. They’ve had some media coverage in the papers and on the tele. They’ve adapted a Hank Williams song and have a cute little Kiwi cartoon on their website where they're asking for $100,000 to fund this mercy mission. But is this really a homegrown handout for the needy of Gaza, or is there something else going on? To find out we have in the studio Roger Fowler, Team Captain of Kia Ora Gaza, good morning to you, and from the Jewish Council of New Zealand, David Zwartz, he's in our Wellington studio

SEAN Roger Fowler I want to come to you first, is this about delivering aid, or making a political statement?

ROGER It's definitely about delivering aid, we're talking about millions of dollars worth of humanitarian aid which is desperately needed by the people of Gaza. We're talking about medical equipment, educational equipment, and building equipment to try and rebuild some normality of life for the people of that desperate nation.

SEAN Alright and to do that the six of you are going to London and then driving to Gaza?

ROGER There'll be a massive convoy Sean of about 500 vehicles, coming in three legs. One's coming down from London and that’s the one that we'll be joining with the people of Palestine, and there'll be another leg coming from Dohar, and another one from Morocco, all coming towards Gaza on the same day.

SEAN Can you not buy the supplies, the medicines and the building supplies you want on Cairo and simply send them over the border to Gaza, why the need for this massive road trip?

ROGER Well this is a big international effort once and for all to bring much needed aid to the people of Gaza.

SEAN But as I've just explained to you there's a far logistically simpler and one would presume more economically sustainable way to do that?

ROGER There is but the need to bring this humanitarian aid is because there is a siege on Gaza, which is inflicted by their neighbours, and we have seen a need to break that siege. So yes there is a physical component to breaking that siege and bringing that aid.

SEAN So are you actually going to physically drive through the lines and sort of confront the Israeli Security Forces?

ROGER Well the Israelis have indicated that they’ve eased the blockade and indicated that it's easy to get stuff through. So that will be put to the test.

SEAN Okay, I'm going to put it to you that actually this is about politics. You and Grant Morgan who's the person you send the money to if you want to back Kia Ora Gaza, members of the Social Workers Party people have been involved in what one would call the far reach of left politics in New Zealand for quite some time.

ROGER Sean you probably know that left leading people are often the very first to come to the aid of the underdog in New Zealand, and in fact it's a good Kiwi tradition. We come to the side of the underdog whether it's in sports or its social events.

SEAN So you would agree there's a political motivation to this?

ROGER No, there are people politically involved, but there's people from a wide selection of backgrounds come to ....

SEAN Not on the trip there isn't?

ROGER Yes there is a wide selection of people.

SEAN Well could you just name some people who aren't politically active on the trip? Your son perhaps?

ROGER My son has put his hand up and he's been selected too.

SEAN Okay, politically active?

ROGER He's involved in community work just as I am. I'm the manager of a community centre in South Auckland, have been heavily involved in community work all my life.

SEAN Part of the Resident Action Movement that stood for Council?

ROGER Yes I've been active in politics.

SEAN Okay, other people on the truck been involved in that movement as well?

ROGER One other one yes.

SEAN Okay, Grant Morgan as I said the man who's taking the money the last General Secretary of the Communist Party in New Zealand. Where does that money go and who administers it, are you a charity?

ROGER We're in the process of setting up a charitable trust. This has all come together quite quickly and the support has been enormous and is growing.

SEAN Okay, and you would agree that the person Viva Palestinia the group you are linked up with in London, is spearheaded by George Galloway, former Labour MP, virulent anti American, a man who's said 'I never met a dictator I didn’t like' and Viva Palestinia itself was investigated by the British Charities Commission last year. Two of its directors resigned and questions were asked about direct payment of money to Hamas which is of course listed as a terrorist organisation in Great Britain.

ROGER Yes, I think all those allegations were proved to be false, and yes George Galloway has been a long time campaigner against war.

SEAN Okay Roger Fowler I thank you. David Zwartz I want to come to you now, and I'm sorry I misdescribed you before, you're in fact a former Honorary Israeli Consul to New Zealand. Mr Zwartz, what do you think of the fact that New Zealanders are being asked to give money now that you have heard some of the other details about Kia Ora Gaza?

DAVID ZWARTZ – FMR IsraelI Council To start with I'd like to say that the Jewish community's greatest concern is about bringing peace to Israel and doing away with the aggressiveness and direct attacks on Israel, particularly from Hamas in Gaza. So that what Roger is talking about is not only bringing humanitarian aid, it's giving definite political support to the Hamas regime in Gaza, and that’s a very negative thing to be doing.

SEAN Is there a blockade on humanitarian aid to Gaza?

DAVID No there is not. There is an international maritime blockade so that the Hamas regime can't bring in armaments directly by sea, but there are 250 trucks per day going into Gaza from Israel, so that the 500 that Roger talked about is just a drop in the bucket, and all those trucks are bringing food and medicines that he spoke about, so that the people of Gaza are getting humanitarian support, and in fact were getting it even during the time that there was conflict, direct fighting between Israel and the Hama regime.

SEAN Mr Zwartz are you saying then if Mr Fowler and his friends turn up with their truckloads of goods they’ll be allowed through, they won't have to break any blockade?

DAVID Well, if you'd read the Herald yesterday you'll see that the last time George Galloway went with trucks he tried to go in through the Rafa crossing point, which is from Egypt and the Egyptians turned him away, and in fact deported him, so that there is not a blockade from Israel into Gaza for humanitarian materials. He's making it up as far as talking about that sort of ...

SEAN Roger Fowler if you want to get the aid in why don’t you, the Israelis say they’ll let it through, what is the big deal here, why do you have to drive from London through Egypt to deliver aid that we're being told would be allowed through anyway?

ROGER Sean, we all know that there is definitely a siege and a blockage on Gaza, even the Prime Minister of the UK has come out and denounced this inhumane blockade, and demanded that it be stopped. World leaders ...

SEAN No what he's actually said and I've got the direct quote here. He said that Gaza couldn’t remain a prison camp, and he says progress is being made, and he made that speech in Turkey, he said progress is being made, which is unlike George Galloway, who says that at the end of the day this is all about the fall of the capitalist system, and Grant Morgan says that in some of his political writings as well.

ROGER Well actually anybody making those references to this issue, this is an issue of taking humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, they're in desperate straits despite what our friend says, and they have been for some time. Yes there has been an easing, and all that means is there's a few bits and pieces are getting through. 250 trucks a day is completely inadequate, they're people in a desperate situation.

SEAN I'd like to bring Bevan and Jock in here. Do you have any questions of Mr Fowler about this?

BEVAN I'm interested Roger in what a good outcome would be for you. Would it be that your convoy goes through, no problem whatsoever, you unload your trucks, the aid is dispersed and everyone's happy, or would in fact be that it turns into some kind of a standoff with the Israelis wanting to search the trucks and the international media gathering round and it turns into a big storm of some sort.

ROGER Definitely the first one, we want the aid to get through to the people of Gaza, they're in desperate need. More than half the country are living in refugee camps, they're in a desperate situation, even their sewerage system doesn’t work properly, they have got hardly any power.

SEAN But I put it to you, we talked to the Red Cross about the aid work they do in Gaza, and they were reluctant to come on the programme, they say they try very hard to stay out of these things in the political sense, but in short the difference between them and Kia Ora Gaza, is that they're an apolitical organisation which works hard to maintain close relationships with their counterparts overseas. I want to ask you again what is your preferred outcome in Gaza, would you like to see Hamas be able to continue a military campaign for example against Israel?

ROGER This campaign is not for nor against Hamas. This campaign it to take aid to the people...

SEAN Why did the umbrella and it's organisation George Galloway give $180,000 directly to Gaza, the money that was raised, that was why there was the investigation in Britain, and can you tell us just how much of your money is going to buy aid and how much is going to finance this rather unnecessary road trip.

ROGER Okay, first of all I believe that those allegations have been disproven, secondly that all the money that’s been collected by Kia Ora Gaza is going to this project. We'll be buying three trucks in the UK, for humanitarian aid.

SEAN Do they need trucks in Gaza.

ROGER Yes they do need trucks. All the trucks will be donated to the people of Gaza, they’ll be left behind packed full of humanitarian aid. That’s the purpose.

SEAN Jock you had a question.

JOCK Yeah let's face it, this is primarily a political stance. I mean you are one of the last communists aren't you in New Zealand? You're taking a group of what we used to call fellow travellers over there, and to pick up on Bevan's point, surely it would assist your political move if in fact this convoy was involved in a confrontation, that world's media would be there and you would be able to show here is another move that is being taken against us freedom fighters, and as a result of that you would be able to pile more embarrassment on the United States. Isn't that correct?

ROGER No it's not, it's not correct at all. As Mr Zwartz has indicated there will be no problem getting aid in. So we just want to get the aid through. We want to see the siege stopped, just as world leaders throughout the world are demanding that it be abandoned.

SEAN Can I ask you about the charitable trust. When will the charitable trust be formed?

ROGER We're setting that up this week. This is probably the ultimate expression if you like of people coming together to aid people in desperate need.

SEAN Okay, I thank you for that. I just want to give the last word to David Zwartz. What would you say to New Zealanders who are considering giving to Kia Ora Gaza Mr Zwartz?

DAVID I would say that $100.000 given to the Pakistan Aid Relief will help one million children instead of going to the diesel fuel and trucks to drive 4,000 kilometres from London to deliver aid which can be delivered much more efficiently through the International Red Cross.

SEAN Mr Zwartz thank you. Roger Fowler very quickly you add something?

ROGER Yes adding to that point. You know there are desperate situations in the world and of course the Pakistan one comes to mind, but this is a man made situation, the situation that people in Gaza are in is a result of Israeli policy. That can be changed and we want to change it.

SEAN Roger Fowler I thank you for your time.

ENDS

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