Q+A: Dr Jackie Blue interviewed by Corin Dann
Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner Dr Jackie Blue – the UN is ‘shocked’ at how women are treated in the family court.
Dr Jackie Blue told TVNZ 1’s Q+A programme, ‘one thing they were particularly shocked about, and that was how women are treated in the family courts. The CEDAW member in charge of those questions was absolutely shocked at the reports that she had read through the NGO submissions.’
‘Hundreds of women have contacted the Backbone Collective and they have told their stories of feeling they’re being revictimised, being punished, of judiciary decisions that have been very inconsistent, and been accused of the discredited parental alienation syndrome, where mothers maliciously get their children to make false claims against their fathers.’
Dr Blue has recently returned from Geneva, where she spoke at the UN’s Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW).
CORIN
And what did the UN want us to do?
JACKIE The line of
questioning was around calling for the rapporteur on
violence to come to New Zealand
When asked about a planned government review of the Family Court, Dr Blue told Corin Dann, ‘the current inquiry that’s going to occur is too narrow, and the CEDAW member also agreed with that. It doesn’t go far enough, and also you need a mechanism where you can investigate our judiciary, which is difficult because they are—there’s a separation of powers with our courts.’
Dr Blue is calling for cross party support to address the issue of domestic violence.
The UN recommendations to the government are expected early this week.
Q + A
Episode
19
DR JACKIE
BLUE
Interviewed by Corin
Dann
JACKIE Look,
I can’t comment about the National Party stance on that. I
actually am so much of a fan of that bill, it’s not funny.
I have advocated for it so strongly. I just know it’s
going to make a difference. And there are so many victims of
family violence in paid work. The workplace is an obvious
place to
intervene.
CORIN Why
do you put it in the terms that domestic violence is a human
rights
issue?
JACKIE Gender
equality – when women are valued the same – will never
happen while we have violence, where often it is a power and
control issue where women’s role in society and how they
are perceived is at the heart of it
all.
CORIN And do
you think this cuts across socioeconomic groups? You’ve
spoken yourself about a personal experience with domestic
violence.
JACKIE We
don’t know, Corin. Upwards of 120,000 callouts to the
police – we don’t know the ethnic breakdown. We think
it’s only about 20% of people who report to the police. It
could be as low as 13%. So we don’t know what the other
80% look like. We don’t know a lot about family violence
in New
Zealand.
CORIN What
do you think, though, having been in your role for a few
years now? What is driving the high levels of violence in
New Zealand? Why is this a problem in New
Zealand?
JACKIE No
one knows for sure – probably a number of reasons. A
number of it could be learned behaviour – children see
their parents being violent. It could be generational –
the victims become perpetrators. It could be—There could
be a whole lot of stressors, which we know we can’t—they
shouldn’t take the blame, like poverty and unemployment or
alcohol. They certainly can contribute but they cannot be
used as an
excuse.
CORIN So
you’ve talked about a cross-party approach, but if there
was an area of government where you had some resources and
you could put in some effort, what would it be? What would
be the thing that you think is most critical that needs to
be
done?
JACKIE When I
was in parliament I did a lot of cross-party work, and when
politics is left at the door and you have diverse, smart
people around the table trying to solve a problem, there’s
a sort of magic that happens. There’s an energy all of its
own and there’s respect, and amazing things can happen. So
that’s why I’m so passionate about a cross-party accord.
Let’s not lose any more
momentum.
CORIN Have
you spoken to the political parties about such an
idea?
JACKIE I know
that Jan Logie was questioned about a cross-party approach
and she said that she was looking to strengthen the
initiatives under the National government. I mean, that was
a very heartening comment made by an MP who has great
integrity, but unfortunately she is not in Cabinet and she
doesn’t have the final say on
this.
CORIN You
have just been at the United Nations. Coming back to that,
how did they view us? Because we have not been making the
progress we should be making on domestic violence. Where do
we stack up in terms of the rest of the world? And I’m
interested how they view us and why we’re not making
progress.
JACKIE Well,
I’ll tell you one thing they were particularly shocked
about, and that was how women are treated in the family
courts. The CEDAW member in charge of those questions was
absolutely shocked at the reports that she had read through
the NGO submissions. And I had read those too prior to going
to New York and I was shocked, and I supported the call for
a special rapporteur on violence against women to come to
New Zealand to investigate women’s experience in the
Family Court.
CORIN What is that
experience that you’re hearing
about?
JACKIE Well,
it’s shocking. Hundreds of women have contacted the
Backbone Collective and they have told their stories of
feeling they’re being revictimised, being punished, of
judiciary decisions that have been very inconsistent, and
been accused of the discredited parental alienation
syndrome, where mothers maliciously get their children to
make false claims against their
fathers.
CORIN And
what did the UN want us to
do?
JACKIE The line
of questioning was around calling for the rapporteur on
violence to come to New Zealand. We’ve yet to wait for
their concluding observations, which will be out in the next
couple of
weeks.
CORIN So a
special rapporteur – they have come to New Zealand in the
past on various issues. So they are an envoy, essentially,
from the United Nations. They would come, presumably, at the
invitation of the
government?
JACKIE There
is an open invitation to all rapporteurs – a standing
invitation – so it would be a matter for the rapporteur to
request a visit and the government to agree and
organise.
CORIN But
it was your sense they wanted to come here to look at this
because they were so concerned about the Family
Court?
JACKIE Oh,
the CEDAW member who was questioning is actually the
vice-chair of that committee and she was shocked. She’s a
family law professor and she’d never read anything so
horrifying.
CORIN We
know that Andrew Little wants to review the Family Court. Is
he aware of these concerns? Have you expressed them to him?
He must be,
surely.
JACKIE I
haven’t personally expressed them but he has met with the
Backbone Collective. The current inquiry that’s going to
occur is too narrow, and the CEDAW member also agreed with
that. It doesn’t go far enough, and also you need a
mechanism where you can investigate our judiciary, which is
difficult because they are—there’s a separation of
powers with our
courts.
CORIN You’re
finishing up soonish, I suppose, in your role. What is your
parting message to those in power as you—in terms of the
next time we go to the UN, how do we make sure that we’ve
actually made
progress?
JACKIE Corin,
we had a visiting expert in New Zealand a few years ago and
she said New Zealand could be world-leading in our model of
combatting domestic violence because we are a small
population, small geography, we have a robust democracy, one
government and we have dedicated people on the ground and
NGOs. So we can be world-leading and we need the focus and
it definitely needs to be cross-party. We can’t afford to
lose any more momentum. And I know it can work. That’s my
message.
Transcript
provided by Able. www.able.co.nz
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