Cablegate: Spain: Visit of Attorney General Gonzales

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RUEHLA/AMCONSUL BARCELONA PRIORITY 2197
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SENSITIVE

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PREL PGOV SP
SUBJECT: SPAIN: VISIT OF ATTORNEY GENERAL GONZALES

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1. (SBU) Summary. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales visited
Madrid on October 23-24 to meet with the Spanish Minister of
Justice, the Minister of Interior, and the Spanish Prosecutor
General. AG Gonzales also participated in the fourth meeting
of the U.S.-Spain Bilateral Counter Terrorism Experts Working
Group. He thanked Spanish interlocutors for Spain's close
cooperation with the USG against international terrorists and
said the USG looked forward to further improving judicial and
security collaboration with Spanish authorities. AG Gonzales
asked Minister of Justice Aguilar and Prosecutor General
Conde Pumpido for help in explaining to the Spanish people
why the U.S. undertook some of its more controversial tactics
in the War on Terror. MOJ Aguilar responded that Spain fully
respected the USG's decision to pursue terrorists in the
manner it has chosen, but said that Spain saw terrorism as a
law enforcement and political issue, not as a military one.
Minister of Interior Rubalcaba told AG Gonzales the most
serious issues on his agenda are stemming the flow of illegal
migrants to Spain and confronting Islamist terrorism.
End Summary. AG Gonzales invited Rubalcaba to visit the U.S.
and we will work to identify an early opportunity for such a
visit.

//MINISTER OF JUSTICE//

2. (U) Attorney General Gonzales visited Madrid on October
23-24 to coincide with the fourth meeting of the U.S.-Spain
Bilateral Counter Terrorism Experts Working Group.
Accompanied by the Ambassador, AG Gonzales met with Minister
of Justice Juan Fernando Lopez Aguilar and Prosecutor General
Candido Conde Pumpido. Conde Pumpido thanked AG Gonzales for
timing his visit to coincide with the Counter Terrorism
Working Group, which he said was a vital tool for removing
technical impediments to improved security cooperation. AG
Gonzales thanked Aguilar and Conde Pumpido for Spain's strong
support for U.S. law enforcement and judicial efforts against
international terrorism. Minister of Justice Aguilar said
that Spain's experience in the long fight against ETA
demonstrated that international cooperation was the only way
to ensure victory against terrorist organizations. Aguilar
said the Spanish Government realized that it faced a
long-term struggle with Islamist radicalism.

3. (SBU) AG Gonzales requested the help of the Spanish
authorities in explaining to the Spanish people the reasoning
behind USG tactics in the War on Terror, particularly the
differences in U.S. legal system and the different political
viewpoints that allowed for the use of military commissions
against terrorist combatants. He noted that the questioning
of military commissions was fair in countries without an
extensive history of military justice, but that the long
tradition of the U.S. military court system would ensure due
process. Aguilar said that Spanish officials understood that
it was not Spain's place to interfere with USG decisions on
how to confront the terrorist threat, but that the USG
approach was highly controversial in Spain and other EU
countries. He noted that there was an active debate in Spain
regarding the extraterritorial reach of Spanish courts.
Aguilar emphasized Spain's understanding that the USG had
arrived at its current anti-terrorist policies through a
constitutional process and that the U.S. had a right to act
as it viewed necessary.

4. (SBU) Prosecutor General Conde Pumpido said Spain was
committed to working with USG judicial and security officials
and could offer its own 40-year experience in fighting
terrorists. He noted that Spain had a long tradition of
military courts, but that such courts now mainly handled
disciplinary issues and, in any case, were now under the
ultimate authority of the civilian Prosecutor General. He
said that Spain had found ways to channel all terrorism cases
into the criminal court system, since labeling terrorists
combatants rather than criminals simply elevated their
position.

5. (SBU) AG Gonzales said that this represented a fundamental
source of tension between the U.S. and EU positions, since
the U.S. believed it was fighting a war and needed to deploy
all of the tools of war in order to confront the enemy. He
emphasized that the U.S. had tried many terrorist suspects in
civilian courts and would continue to do so where
appropriate, but would also use the military justice system
in accordance with decisions taken by the President,
Congress, and the courts. Minister Aguilar agreed that there
were clear differences and said both sides needed to respect

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those differences. He said that Spain's unfortunate dirty
war against ETA (during the Felipe Gonzalez presidency)
colored the views of Spanish observers and inculcated a
special appreciation of the importance of the rule of law.

6. (U) Following their meeting, the Minister of Justice and
Prosecutor General accompanied AG Gonzales to a brief press
conference. Spanish media focused on questions related to
the War on Terror, but also asked AG Gonzales for his views
on the ETA peace process. AG Gonzales responded that the
decision on how to confront ETA was an internal Spanish
matter.

//COUNTER TERRORISM WORKING GROUP//

7. (SBU) AG Gonzales, Aguilar, and Conde Pumpido addressed
the members of the Bilateral Counter Terrorism Working Group,
that included Spanish prosecutors and USG officials from the
Department of Justice, FBI, and the Consular and Political
sections of the Embassy. The U.S. and Spanish leaders of the
Working Group presented the key developments of the two-day
set of meetings, including a decision by the groups to pursue
a joint investigation in a terrorism case of mutual interest
and a determination to establish direct points of contact
between the Spanish Prosecutor's Office and the U.S.
Department of Justice.

//MINISTER OF INTERIOR RUBALCABA//

8. (SBU) AG Gonzalez and the Ambassador met with Minister of
Interior Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba. Rubalcaba said that the
most pressing issues in his portfolio were the continuing
massive flow of illegal immigrants into Spain and the threat
posed by Islamist extremists. Rubalcaba differentiated
between ETA and Islamist terrorists, saying the Spanish
authorities had gained an understanding of ETA and how to
infiltrate the organization. Islamist terrorists were far
more difficult to counter, since neither he nor his officials
could relate to their value system, making it difficult to
forecast their intentions.

9. (SBU) Rubalcaba expressed gratitude for USG cooperation
with Spanish law enforcement agencies. He expressed optimism
that Spanish police agencies could improve their internal
coordination (a long-standing problem), but said there were
no coordination problems with U.S. counterparts. He noted
that the Zapatero Government had recently advised Parliament
of the creation of a DNA database, a database that had been
donated by the FBI. Rubalcaba said it was important that the
Spanish public learned of USG support for Spanish efforts
against drug traffickers and other organized criminals.

10. (U) Attorney General Gonzales thanked Rubalcaba for
Spain's cooperation on law enforcement issues and invited him
to visit the U.S. Rubalcaba expressed interest in doing so,
saying he had visited the U.S. while he was Minister of
Education in the Gonzalez Administration, but had never
visited Quantico or other law enforcement installations.

//COMMENT//

11. (SBU) This was a highly effective visit from the
Embassy's point of view, particularly since it was the AG's
first meeting with Rubalcaba. Rubalcaba has surprised the
Embassy with his openness to working with the USG and his
willingness to consider innovative approaches to cooperation,
including asking the USG for models of civilian-military on
counter terrorism and counter narcotics. The Embassy will
work to find an early opportunity for Rubalcaba to visit the
U.S., to help cement his readiness to engage with the USG.
The AG's participation in the Working Group helped ensure
that it was the most successful session of that group since
its inception in 2005. It also helped us deepen our
relationship with the Ministers of Justice and Interior, with
whom we have a busy agenda in the coming months.
AGUIRRE

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