Toni Solo: Interview with Alba Palacios

TcS: About a year ago, you gave a very interesting interview to my colleague the Swedish journalist Dick Emanuelsson on your view of the development of the Nicaraguan government's programme after its first year. I wonder if it might be possible for you to talk broadly about how you feel the government's programme has developed over this last year?

AP: Well in practice on January 10th it will be two years of President Ortega's government. In these two years, then, the situation has been a very complicated one, because, here, we took over a State organized in a way that did not meet people's needs and international cooperation was not focused on the main priorities that have to do with poverty reduction.

So the government, whose main policy priority is the fight against poverty and to eradicate the principal social ills of the great majority of the people, found itself with this phenomenon of a State in bits - health and education practically privatized, widespread unemployment. A pretty dramatic situation and, well, the government had to start almost from scratch really in, terms of the country's true situation.

On that basis it had to begin negotiating changes with international cooperation donors on the efforts that might be made, given the large quantity of resources spent on bureaucratic and personnel costs, including foreign personnel, originating from the different countries that offer cooperation. All that caused, shall we say, conflicts and delays and so forth.

And at the same time, the President was organizing fundamental programmes. The first thing he did was to re-structure the health and education systems from the point of view of guaranteeing free health and education which, in practice, people in Nicaragua had been denied. That is one of the main advances of this new government.

There's been a literacy campaign since illiteracy had increased in the country during the 16 years of neoliberal governments. And really there's been a lot of progress on the issue of illiteracy. The government's objective is to reduce illiteracy to zero. And if in some areas that may not have been achieved well we hope at least if not reducing it to zero, then to reduce the number of illiterate people substantially.

There is also the programme of eye operations supported by Cuba and Venezuela, whereby thousands of Nicaraguans who had no chance of having this type of operation have got their sight back as part of this very well known Mission Miracle.

And then there's the Zero Hunger programme which has already brought a productive benefit package to a good number of women, heads of household of low income rural families, so they can gradually accumulate basic components to be able to feed themselves.

There's also the Zero Usury programme, made up of zero interest loans for women in poor urban districts who need small loans so as to be able to start a shop, a bakery, a tortilla business, a sewing business and so on. In this way that whole sector has been easing itself out of the loan-shark framework their situation had forced them into.

And then too there's everything that has to do with funding for cooperatives and small and medium producers, by means of various other programmes. There's the process of guaranteeing legal title to land that has been moving forward pretty well, although there is still much to do.

In addition to all that, there's the work on streets and rural roads. This programme is called Streets for the People, because it does not deal in highways but rather with making streets in low-income barrios and making roads in rural areas and communities, so as to improve living conditions and access for produce and movement of produce, and the mobility of people who live in those barrios and in those rural communities who were shoved to the margins all these years.

A housing project has also been started. There is a great deal to do on housing. But we have to do so with a different vision, because before there was what was called Plan Techo (Plan Roof), which provided just a roof and a floor and a very small house. This government's vision is to provide at least two bedrooms, a living room and a kitchen with tiles, a bathroom. So it is a different vision of a new kind of more dignified housing for low income people. So, that programme has started and is progressing.

A big problem that has been overcome was the problem of power cuts, the issue of electricity. We had cuts of eight to twelve hours. Today they are sporadic and for entirely technical reasons. And also an effort has been made to control energy and water prices. The Nicaraguan Energy Institute this year made two price cuts, one now at the end of November and one at the beginning of December, to try and protect the pocket of people in Nicaragua.

There is also the Food for the People programme, by means of which a large number of points of sale have been arranged throughout the country to permit people to buy rice, cooking oil and other products at cheaper prices accessible to the community and to attack the speculative market in basic grains controlled by big business.

We can say that the energy framework is also changing. It is no longer just to reduce power cuts to zero, which is costly given the price of diesel, but also new projects and alternative programmes for generating energy that are going to be developed and are being developed currently in different parts of the country.

There has been some employment creation. There has been a certain level of investment. I don't think it has been as much as is needed yet. There is a need for more sources of employment. In two years, after all, it is difficult to do away with all the things that are wrong, but steps are being taken.

Those steps obviously had their effects and results in November's municipal elections. But the right wing opposition groups have not wanted to accept that defeat and we hope that the situation will soon sort itself out so it does not continue to affect the country, trying to cut international aid from Europe or the United States. Because in the end the ones affected directly are Nicaragua's people.

And, well, the President is seeking other alternatives with other coutnries to try and meet the urgent needs of our people so that at least in another five years and in a situation of world crisis ( and the effects of that crisis are still to be felt in our country, in our region) we may have better conditions to be able to defend ourselves as best as the reality of our under-developed country permits.

Funding small producers, providing seeds, all that is being done for the cooperative sector and for small producers, this is of the utmost importance, because the big business sector, big capital, that sector already has its capacity, its skills and its local and national markets,which have yet to be affected as well.

TcS: UP to what point do you think these national government policies affected the municipal level in the elections of November 9th?

Alba Palacios: It had an effect. It did have an effect. And one has to remember that before the elections here in the National Assembly, some US$50 million in loans on the one hand was already being held up and on the other hand a budget reform earmarked for addressing the problem of the highways, impassable roads and the effects on thousands of families of the rains. There they remained and have yet to be approved to this day because the opposition parties reckoned that if they supported the government in meeting people's needs then that would affect the vote.

In practice they recognize benefits to the people do affect the vote, in other words, what happened was a campaign complaining to the US and European ambassadors that the opposition parties were being left in a very difficult position. So now we have 109.8 million dollars that will now be lacking for budget support, for improving drinking water in different parts of the country, for improving various technical training centres, for providing more credit to small and medium producers, among other things that need support and attention.

So it's logical that if a government is focusing its efforts on the least well off and people on low incomes are impoverished regardless of whatever ideology they may have, then generally they are going to look favourably on that government. And that is what has happened and that is what these opposition leaders have been unwilling to accept.

The right wing had sixteen years in government. If they had done for people all the things they offered to do in their campaign, they would have stayed in government. But instead the situation got worse, unemployment ballooned, poverty grew, hunger increased, social problems increased.

I think the opposition lacks a national vision, thinking of the people instead of primarily their own economic, political and personal interests. Unfortunately that does have an effect. This fight against poverty could do more and better things if the opposition had a more responsible position or if it were really interested in the great majority of our people.

TcS: So one can say in fact that the reason the right wing opposition failed to get the results they hoped for from the elections was that , perhaps above all at a municipal level but also at a national level they were not offering a programme that convinced people?

Alba Palacios: That is so,in part.

TcS: But if one accepts that, would it be true to say that - what you have pointed out and suggested, that the opposition is behaving in a way destructive of the national interest - do you think they have decided to choose that behaviour as a strategy because they don't have another one?

Alba Palacios: Yes

TcS: Would it be fair to say that?

Alba Palacios: One has to remember that the right wing strategy to prevent the Frente Sandinista coming to power was based on a campaign of fear. Fear of war, fear of economic boycott, fear that shortages and rationing would appear again, resulting from all that part we lived through, fear of war also implied military service. So those arguments collapsed. They collapsed because the President won, there was no military service, no war, no rationing, no State control.

So, what's left to them? Well, they can dream up new methods., new lines of attack against a government they believe might stay in power for a long time if it is able to develop its social and economic policies, a government that excludes their personal and economic interests.

So they have invented the issue of dictatorship, you see, of authoritarianism. And now as a last resort, knowing they were going to lose the elections they began to say there was going to be fraud and they have now mounted a campaign of a non-existent supposed fraud, advised and accompanied by foreign governments, in this case the US embassy, the US government and some European governments, which are the ones advising them and funding them.

It is a model and framework that is not new in Latin America. They have used it and continue using it in Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua. So all this is part of a plan. They have not accepted that the left wing can be in government. For them, democracy is only for their interests and for the right wing. Democracy for them is not something for the impoverished or for the left wing. So that is their dilemma. That is their situation.

So they are going to continue with their media campaign, with their pressure - now they are freezing some aid accounts, freezing the Millenium Challenge Account, now other European governments say they are going to freeze a series of resources. All this is so as to continue a plan of internal destabilization, of internal discontent, to upset things with the ultimate objective of ensuring enough votes to be able to force the Frente Sandinista out of government in the next elections.

TcS: But the next elections are in 2011. Is the opposition capable of being that ruthless?

Alba Palacios: Well. They have two ways to go. One, by generating instability and, why not say it, intervention in our country. And, two, to try and overthrow the government prior to 2011. They are working on those strategies. And this is nothing but a permanent strategy of sustained systematic attack and suffocation of the government so as to appear, by their criteria, in a better light to the public.

TcS: From a constitutional point of view, where does that leave the National Assembly? Because if the legislature is going to be out of action, how can the government work to implement its programme?

Alba Palacios: I think that quite quickly, let's hope it won't take too long, it may be possible to sort out the problem here in the National Assembly. The truth is that the president of the National Assembly has managed to avoid an unconstitutional action aimed at approving a law that contravenes the constitution.

Because whether they like it or not, when the opposition have won with that Supreme Electoral Council everything has been perfect, but now when they lose, everything is imperfect. But that is the law, that is the Constitution. The Supreme Electoral Council is the body defined as managing electoral matters. The legislative power does not have those attributes and therefore cannot promote a law that threatens the constitutional order. And that is the situation.

Let's hope that in January, once Christmas and the New Year are over, a little more consideration will be in play and that a political negotiation makes progress whereby, if what is desired is to change the electoral system, then for this to be done via a reform of the electoral law, which is a constitutional law requiring the requisite number of votes for its reform.

But the opposition have not wanted to act in that way, because they do not have the votes they need. They have tried to work via an ordinary law which, on the one hand threatens the constitution and on the other gives them, one might say, space for a campaign of permanent and systematic attack domestically and above all internationally, which is the fundamental objective they pursue.

TcS: There is a technical point that people unfamiliar with Nicaragua's constitution may not understand which is the fact that neither side in the National Assembly has been able to form a legal quorum or majority. How far might this go towards causing a more prolonged paralysis?

Alba Palacios: Well, let's hope the paralysis does not continue - it's two months now, November and December that have been lost in terms of work here in the National Assembly. On January 9th, a new Executive Committee has to be elected. So you have two things, one the election of the new Executive Committee and two, making progress on the people's economic and social agenda. And the electoral issue needs to be left to the instance that deals with it, or, if one wants to change the electoral system, then enter into a reform process as established by the law and by the constitution.

But, well, one has to wait, really. We hope that respectful consideration will prevail and not an attack on the government just for the sake of damaging the government, because in the end the ones who pay the price are the people of Nicaragua who need that help, that solidarity, that development cooperation. And this is what is required of a political class concerned to benefit the people. But, for now, the opposition is not showing that concern.

TcS: What effect on the work of the National Assembly do you think might result from the swearing in of the municipal authorities scheduled for January 15th? One has to suppose that if the opposition mayors take office they are recognizing the authority of the Supreme Electoral Council. Could that have a positive impact?

Alba Palacios: In fact it would, because that is the direction things are moving in really, while there is no case made demonstrating to the Supreme Electoral Council that there was fraud in one of the municipalities, as they have sought to show, then the mayors have to take office in accordance with the law. Once they are declared elected, then they have to take office and things will take their course. Where Liberals are in office, they will run their municipalities, likewise the Sandinistas, where they are in office, and the others, like the ALN for example, so as to begin to get to work.

TcS: Is there any sign the PLC may order their mayors-elect to refuse to take office?

Alba Palacios: I have not heard that yet. But it is the duty of the elected mayors and councillors to take up the duties for which they put themselves forward in tehir communities. So the 10th or the 15th or the day specified by the Council, that day teh new democratically elected authorities have to take office as a result of the electoral process. A process the right wing didn't take kindly to, nor did the US government.

TcS: Speaking of the US government and foreign intervention in general, the latest comments of ambassador Callahan seem to be very clear and categorical - that he gives the government 90 days to take, or not, some measure, that they may like or dislike, and on that basis supposedly the US authorities will look again at another decision on the famous Millenium Challenge Account. But it is very suspicious for me and other observers that those 90 days end exactly a few days before the elections in El Salvador.

Alba Palacios: Yes, it's part too of the pressure on El Salvador.

TcS: So do you agree that we're not just talking about what happens here in Nicaragua but about things that affect what happens in the whole region?

Alba Palacios: Yes, the whole region. It is a model that has been used in Venezuela, in Bolivia, in Ecuador and obviously in El Salvador. What they intend to say is, ok, if a leftist government wins there, it's going to have the same problems as the government in Nicaragua has. We are going to block it. And obviously, that benefits the right wing in El Salvador and the governing party, ARENA.

But, well, the Salvadoran people will also have to give battle and God willing , given the situation developing to put pressure on the vote in El Salvador, God willing the people will vote in accordance with their own needs and not in accordance with external pressure which ultimately will not resolve their problems.

They know that in El Salvador there is a good chance, a realistic chance that the FMLN will win and in that way the political situation in Central America will remake itself in favour of the Central American peoples and not to the benefit of the interests of North American multinational companies which have dominated the region's politics and economy.

TcS: What impact, if any, might the First Summit of Latin American and Caribbean governments have had which included the presence of Cuba and without the presence of the government of the United States? Might it be possible for that message to have an effect on the policies of the region's governments?

Alba Palacios: I think so, because Latin America is taking the necessary steps to continue uniting, articulating itself, showing itself to be a region regardless of the differences that exist between the governments, because there are right wing governments in Latin America. But the fact they are all together looking at their own problems also has to do with the very crisis that there is in the North. The crisis of the recession that is going to affect everybody regardless of their political position and which must therefore affect the whole region.

And all that is caused by the energy crisis, the food problems, so that is obviously obliging governments to seek a way out by means of a more regional position, a position of greater autonomy and dignity. Regional unity is going to strengthen, faced with a country that traditionally used bilateral relations and decided who was to govern and who was not to govern in our region based on their own economic interests, the interests of their big business people and their multinational companies.

But that is changing now, thanks be to God, since Latin America is emerging as a region which is, furthermore, prioritizing its local trade, economic exchange among the people of Latin America, economic exchange in the South. And I think we are the winners in that really.

So let's hope the new government in the United States will have a different vision to the one of the last two periods of Republican government. At least being more respectful really and that would mean a great deal. That they might refrain from interfering in our region would mean a lot, even if they did not help us.

TcS: One last question, Deputy. Do you think it will be crucial for the government's programme, this matter of a possible withdrawal of development cooperation by some European governments and the United States?

Alba Palacios: Of course. It all has its effect. We're not going to say it has no effect. It will have an effect and that is going to put the government in a position where it has to go looking for new resources in other countries.

For that reason I think the President is engaging in a series of relations beyond Europe and the United States, to try and make good the gaps that could be caused for us economically if, in effect, they start to blockade Nicaragua via withdrawing development cooperation or freezing it as they have just done.

It is a situation that has to be resolved really and that the government has to face and look for resources elsewhere. And I think, with sufficient will and negotiation, that will be achieved.

We would like to have that development cooperation because it would be in addition to other help we might get. But well, if that is their decision, well, it's unfortunate, but never mind. I think that we, the Nicaraguan people have our dignity and we're not going to give in to that kind of thing. We will have to find some way out. Via his international relationships, the President is going to find a solution, go looking for resources for the programmes that are left without funding and which are of benefit to our people.

toni writes for tortillaconsal.com

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