[Sitting date: 26 November 2014. Volume:702;Page:10. Text is subject to correction.]

12. DENIS O'ROURKE (NZ First) to the Minister of Internal Affairs : Does he agree with Nigel Hampton QC, who acted for several of the victims of the collapse of the CTV building, who said “One is forced to the conclusion that in New Zealand, the ability to determine responsibility and accountability in any search and rescue response is directly related to the political will and motivation at cabinet and governmental level.”; if not, why not?

Hon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Internal Affairs): Although I have great sympathy for the families who lost loved ones in the CTV Building collapse, I do not agree with Mr Hampton’s comments, for the simple reason that that particular earthquake was an event that would have stretched any emergency service in the world on that day. The coroner’s report that was released in March was a full account of the challenges and the complexities that were faced during the rescue from the CTV Building, and it noted that none of the actions taken by Fire Service personnel would have in any way contributed to the deaths of any of the people who lost their lives there. Subsequently, the Fire Service has carried out two reviews of search and rescue operations on the day, including one independent review. It has made a number of changes as a result of those reviews, which address the issues raised. I have also just recently announced a wider review of the Fire Service in terms of its ongoing role in emergency management services.

Denis O'Rourke : In addition to what the Minister has just said, what else has the Government done to ensure that in future urban disaster rescue operations the loss of life caused by command and communication ineptitude at the CTV Building will never be repeated?

Hon PETER DUNNE : I am not the Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery so I can speak only with regard to those matters that come within my portfolio. What I can say is that there has been full input into the coordinated incident management systems review that was carried out by the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management. I have already indicated that all of the changes recommended by the coroner in his report are in the process of being implemented by the New Zealand Fire Service. I think it is fair to say that one of the big learnings out of that horrific event was that there is a need for much greater on-the-ground coordination and communication during an incident, and that lesson has been learnt in a very sad and hard way.

Denis O'Rourke : Is the Minister satisfied that the Government has done enough to ensure that responsibility and accountability for the inept rescue response immediately following the collapse of the CTV Building has been precisely identified and published; if so, why?

Hon PETER DUNNE : Absolutely. I have indicated in my answers already the steps that have been taken in response to the coroner’s review. Can I say to the member that had he had the privilege that I did a few months ago of attending the awards ceremony in Christchurch, where those firefighters who fought so gallantly on that day to carry out those rescues at a time when they did not know the status of their own families in the earthquake, and when they did not know the status of their own properties or jobs, he would have the hugest respect—

Denis O'Rourke : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]

Mr SPEAKER : Order! I apologise to the Minister. [Interruption] Order! This is a point of order, and it will be heard in silence.

Denis O'Rourke : Although I am interested in what the Minister has to say, he was actually asked—

Mr SPEAKER : Order! The member will resume his seat immediately. I heard the question. I heard the answer. The Minister was answering a question with a lot of compassion, and the member should do the House a service by allowing the Minister to complete his answer.

Denis O'Rourke : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You did not hear my point of order, and that was not the subject—

Mr SPEAKER : The member will resume his seat. If he wants to raise a new point of order, a fresh point of order, I will hear it. If it is an irrelevant point of order or it contests my ruling, I will ask the member to immediately leave the Chamber.

Denis O'Rourke : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The fresh point of order is this. The Minister has been talking about the firefighters who attended the CTV Building collapse. The question was, as you will see, about the Government being satisfied concerning responsibility and accountability for the whole operation—

Mr SPEAKER : Order! I have heard enough. The member needs to look at his original question, which was about the responsibility and accountability of the rescue response. Subsequent questions have then asked of the Minister something that is not his responsibility, and the Minister has told the member that. That is the end of the matter.

Denis O'Rourke : Is the Minister satisfied that those who are responsible have been appropriately held to account; if so, why, and, if not, what will he do about it?

Mr SPEAKER : In so far as there is ministerial responsibility, the Hon Peter Dunne.

Hon PETER DUNNE : With regard to the search and rescue services, particularly those provided by the Fire Service, I am satisfied that every lesson to be learnt from that event has been learnt, that the recommendations from the coroner will be implemented, and that, in the unlikely and unfortunate repetition of such an event, we will deliver a high-quality service.

ENDS

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