[Sitting date: 27 November 2014. Volume:702;Page:9. Text is subject to correction.]

10. KRIS FAAFOI (Labour—Mana) to the Minister of Corrections : Does he stand by all his statements?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA (Minister of Corrections): Yes, in the context in which they were given.

Kris Faafoi : Does he stand by his decision on Monday to make no statement to Radio New Zealand on the issue that Mt Eden prison, New Zealand’s only privately run prison, has the highest number of prisoner assaults over the last 3 years; if so, why?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : I did not make a statement on Monday in terms of Mt Eden prison. [Interruption]

Mr SPEAKER : Order! I am going to ask the member Kris Faafoi to repeat the question. If we could have some silence, it would assist the Minister in hearing the question.

Kris Faafoi : Does he stand by his decision on Monday to make no statement to Radio New Zealand on the issue that Mt Eden prison, New Zealand’s only privately run prison, has the highest number of prisoner assaults over the last 3 years; if so, why?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : Yes.

Kris Faafoi : Why?

Mr SPEAKER : I think the member should just elaborate. It was the second part of the question that was not answered before. The member has now—

Kris Faafoi : I will restate the question?

Mr SPEAKER : Yes.

Kris Faafoi : Why is he happy to stand by that decision?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : It is not related to any statement I made in terms of Mt Eden—

Mr SPEAKER : Order! The Minister was asked a particular question, and the second part of that question was: if that was his decision then why was it his decision? The Minister chose not to answer that, which is perfectly in order. If supplementary questions contain two legs, only one needs to be answered. The member then asked, in a second supplementary question, why the Minister made that decision. That needs to be addressed by the Minister. I call the Hon Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga. Would it assist the Minister if I got the question asked again?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : Yes.

Mr SPEAKER : Could I ask Kris Faafoi to ask the question again.

Kris Faafoi : Why does the Minister stand by his decision to not make a statement?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : This is ridiculous. I did not make a statement. I chose not to make that statement, and that is entirely up to me whether I make a statement or not.

Chris Hipkins : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not unreasonable to ask a Minister why they chose a particular course of action and why they chose not to make a comment on something. Simply saying “Because I didn’t.” is not actually giving an answer. That is not an unreasonable question. There are reasons why Ministers do not comment on things and do not speak about particular issues. It is not unreasonable to ask why in this instance he chose not to comment.

Tim Macindoe : The primary question asked whether the Minister stood by all of his statements. It is therefore illogical to the point of being a non sequitur to then ask the Minister why he does not stand by not making a statement. The two are not related and that could not possibly be a supplementary question to the original question.

Chris Hipkins : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]

Mr SPEAKER : Order! [Interruption] Order! Point of orders need to be heard in silence.

Chris Hipkins : Supplementary questions are related to the Minister’s answer. In the Minister’s answer, he stated: “I made a decision.”, and therefore the supplementary question relates to that.

Mr SPEAKER : Order! I have heard enough and I have certainly had plenty of advice coming from both sides. On this particular occasion we have had the question now asked twice. The answer has not been satisfactory to the member asking the questions, and I can see why that has not been so. I think the best way forward is that the member now has an additional supplementary question.

Kris Faafoi : Given that his officials told Radio New Zealand on Monday that safety at Mt Eden Prison was an operational matter for his department, why did he say in a press release on 21 October that he was focused on improving safety for staff and prisoners?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : I am focused on improving staff for prisons . That is why I visited, in the last 2 weeks, a number of prisons across this country. I have talked to the unions and corrections, I have talked to the officials, and I will continue to focus on that safety.

Kris Faafoi : Why are privately run prisons more dangerous than State run prisons, given that there have been 139 fights between inmates and 26 assaults on guards at the privately run Mt Eden Prison, yet Christchurch Prison, with a similar size muster, has a total of 83 assaults, and does he think it is because privately run prisons run with a much lower ratio of staff to inmates?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : No, I dispute that assertion that privately run prisons do not run as effectively. In fact, they are two totally different types of prisons. One is, essentially, a remand prison, so I actually disagree with that assertion.

Kris Faafoi : Why on 16 November did he tell me that Phillip Smith’s escape was an operational matter and not his responsibility, and on Monday his officials told Radio New Zealand that assaults at Mt Eden Prison are an operational issue and not his responsibility?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : It is an operational matter in terms of Phillip Smith. I did order a review into the incident around Phillip Smith absconding. We have had 13 recommendations, which the department is operationally adopting, and I will be keeping, as the Minister, a close eye on those recommendations being implemented.

Kris Faafoi : Seeing as the Minister thinks a lot of the things—

Mr SPEAKER : Order! Can we just have the question please—[Interruption] Order! The member can see there the difficulty we get into if the—

Kris Faafoi : If the Minister believes that a lot of the things that happened in his department are operational matters and not his responsibility, why was he given any responsibility at all?

Hon Peseta SAM LOTU-IIGA : As I said, as the Minister, I am responsible for fixing some of the problems that have been incurred in the Phillip Smith case. Some of those problems have been, obviously, at an operational level, but I am here to fix them. That is why I am working alongside the department to take on the recommendations to fix these issues.

ENDS

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