Sitting date: 18 February 2025

ORAL QUESTIONS

QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS

Question No. 1—Prime Minister

1. Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government's statements and actions?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Yes, and especially our action to promote tourism. Tourism is an absolutely critical industry for this great country of ours. It drives almost $38 billion, employs almost 200,000 people up and down the country. And on this side of the House, we know that, actually, growing tourism is a good thing for economic growth, and a good thing for economic growth is more money in the back pockets of Kiwis. So, we're going all out on tourism: digital nomad visas, which the member supported then didn't support. We're going all out on a stronger presence in key markets like Australia, and a $30 million investment in conservation tourism. So we're not stopping there; there'll be more to say on tourism in the coming weeks, and I'm sure the member will look forward to supporting us and the work that we're doing to drive the tourism sector. And we don't want him saying no to tourism.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does his Government's "Everyone must go!" strategy include driving highly qualified Kiwis to Australia, particularly in light of recent complaints from Engineering New Zealand that his Government's delay to infrastructure projects are driving hundreds of engineers across the Tasman?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I thank the member for his question and I acknowledge that under his last year in Government there was 43,000 New Zealand citizens that left New Zealand. That number has crept up—up to 47,000 in the last year—and that is why this Government's working incredibly hard on improving the economy so that there is opportunities for people here. But it is not helped—it is not helped—when you've got a Labour Government that bans industries that, actually, Kiwis are leaving New Zealand to go work in: mining and oil and gas in Australia. That doesn't work.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Was Engineering New Zealand chief executive, Dr Richard Templer, wrong when he said, "The shutdown of education rebuilds, the shutdown of hospital builds and upgrades, the slow down on roading, the changes in the Three Waters space has meant that … New Zealand constructors, the people who build the roads, waters network[s] and buildings have all had to look for work elsewhere and that has seen people heading overseas … in significant numbers."

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: And isn't it ironic that the member that caused the grief in the New Zealand economy is now criticising us for trying to fix it? And what I'd say is, there are some good signs. There are no more phantom projects anymore for engineers to work on. No more Auckland light rail, Let's Get Wellington Moving—all those kinds of projects. There's $33 billion in the national transport plan; there's $148 billion in the Infrastructure Commission pipeline. There's work coming and it's starting to happen. We're getting roads built: Brougham St's starting, Hawke's Bay's started. That's what's going on.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Was his "Everyone must go!" strategy inspired by the fact that, under his Government's leadership, the number of people leaving New Zealand has reached a record high, with 128,000 people giving up and simply leaving, last year alone.

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, as I just explained in my first answer, net migration has moved from 43,000 to 47,000 for New Zealand citizens. That is why we are working so incredibly hard on building the economy. But, I'll tell you what it's not helped by, it's not helped by a Labour Party not supporting tax relief for working New Zealanders. It's not supported by a Labour Party not supporting fast-track legislation to keep people in work. That's what's important.

Hon Chris Bishop: Can the Prime Minister confirm that the latest quarterly infrastructure pipeline report from the independent Infrastructure Commission confirms $108 billion of funded projects under way and in planning from central Government, local government, and the private sector—up $8 billion in the last quarter?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Yes, I can, and what I can confirm is the $33 billion in the National Transport Plan as well. There is activity and things happening in this country. We're not going to do phantom projects and Post-it notes and talk about mythical things.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does his "Everyone must go!" strategy apply to the leadership of the New Zealand health system, and how does an exodus of that valuable expertise improve the health outcomes for Kiwis?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I can tell you what this Government is doing is we're embracing "Everything must go!", like high inflation, like high interest rates, like wasteful spending, like cycle bridges, like Let's Get Wellington Moving. We're saying everything must go, including gang members going up, violent crime going up, retail crime going up. And who was the police Minister for five years?

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does his "Everyone must go!" strategy extend to those in emergency housing; and why can't anyone in his Government explain where they've gone, given increasing reports of homelessness, with the Downtown Community Ministry reporting a 40 percent increase in homelessness under his watch?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, that is rich coming from that member, because that Government presided over an absolute shameful record on emergency housing. When we came to Government, there was 3,200 households living in motels—[Interruption]

SPEAKER: Right. Sorry, Prime Minister. That's absolutely enough. I know that the Prime Minister's questions generally illicit a lot more, you'd say, interjection, but not the constant barrage that's going on. The Opposition wants answers—listen to them.

Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Why does his "Everyone must go!" mantra seem to apply to everyone except for David Seymour, who referred a victim of sexual abuse by the ACT Party president to a lawyer rather than to the police, intervened in a police murder investigation, and drove a Land Rover up the front steps of Parliament, and yet is being rewarded with a promotion to Deputy Prime Minister?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I'd just say we took the public approach to the Labour Party at the last election, where they said, "Everyone must go.", and, actually, the member is the only member who hasn't got anywhere else to go.

Glen Bennett: You're obsessed with us.

Hon Dr Megan Woods: That's shaky ground, mate.

SPEAKER: Wait on. Hey—listen. This is the week where someone, clearly, is going to go for not listening to the instruction to keep it seemly. Can I please have Rawiri Waititi?

Rawiri Waititi: Does he believe that Operation Trolley, executed in Rotorua, was a good use of taxpayer money?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Absolutely.

Rawiri Waititi: How much did it cost?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I encourage the member to direct his question to the relevant Minister.

Rawiri Waititi: Point of order, Mr Speaker. It's on the record, the Prime Minister saying he absolutely believed it was a good use of taxpayer money, but he doesn't know how much it cost.

SPEAKER: Well, I'm sure that throughout the Budget documents there are lots of figures that are a good use of public money that are not at the immediate recall of the Prime Minister.

Rawiri Waititi: How can you say you support it if you don't know how much it cost?

SPEAKER: It wasn't a question on notice—it wasn't a question on notice. You've got to be reasonable about that.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader—Green) to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ngā kōrero me ngā mahi katoa a tōna Kāwanatanga?

[Does he stand by all of his Government's statements and actions?]

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes, and especially our $30 million investment in conservation, which is designed to boost biodiversity and also tourism across New Zealand. Our tourism industry thrives on our very strong natural assets, and it's critical that we continue to invest in those assets. I thank Minister Potaka for doing exactly that. And that's why it's fantastic to see a range of investments being made up and down and across the country throughout the conservation estate. These are evidence that we can actually grow tourism, and we're going to continue to do that.

Hon Marama Davidson: How can he be proud of that $30 million funding announcement for conservation tourism when, in the past year alone, the Department of Conservation (DOC) has been forced to make $47.2 million in cuts, so that, overall, this announcement doesn't even cover the hole that this Government created?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I'm actually incredibly proud of that investment, and I'd hope that the member would get behind it. Surely the member is saying yes to $30 million going in for this particular task.

Hon Marama Davidson: Will he commit to more funding for DOC in Budget 2025 in light of recent information concluding the department would need $2.3 billion annually to protect biodiversity?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: You'll have to wait till the Budget.

Hon Marama Davidson: Does he think a $30 million announcement is sufficient, considering that tourism on public conservation land alone is worth around $3.4 billion a year?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I'm sure there is more we can do, but it's a great start, and I'd hope the member would encourage it and be thankful for it.

Hon David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister agree with the member that spending more money is a goal in itself, or does he alternatively believe that the Government's objective is to get greater value out of spending less money, just as every firm, farm, and family has had to for the last few years?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: That's exactly right; it's all about value for money, and that's what we're doing.

Hon Marama Davidson: Why is he comfortable with his Government only investing a mere 0.88 percent of the value of tourism on conservation land at the same time as it is enabling more mining in Aotearoa?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I reject those two things, and those two legs to that question, but what I'd just say, in respect to the investment in the conservation area, is I'm proud of our investment. We've done a good job making sure we open up a new Great Walk, the Hump Ridge Track. That's fantastic. We've got some protection cross-party around the Hauraki Gulf protection. We've reopened Cathedral Cove. That's all good stuff.

Hon Marama Davidson: Does he expect this loose-change announcement to distract the New Zealand public from the fact that his Government continues to put commercial interests over protecting te taiao for future generations?

Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: And in that question, you have it, don't you? That's exactly the mentality; it's just loose change, $30 million! Well, actually, it's the taxpayers' money. We're getting value for money. We want to grow our economy so we can invest more in the environment. [Interruption]

SPEAKER: I'll tell you what, you can carry on that conversation outside in a few minutes. I keep getting these letters saying, "You keep threatening to send people out but don't do it." It's because of my good nature, but it's really at its end.

Question No. 3—Finance

3.PAULO GARCIA (National—New Lynn) to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): I've seen two recent releases from BNZ and Business New Zealand: the BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Manufacturing Index and the BNZ-Business New Zealand Performance of Services Index. In terms of manufacturing, the index lifted sharply in January to its highest level since September 2022. And while, of course, individual manufacturers will have their own sets of circumstances, manufacturing on the whole is now expanding after 22 months of contraction. The BNZ describes this as "a positive start to 2025, with the manufacturing sector shifting out of reverse and into first gear."

Paulo Garcia: What did the Performance of Services Index show?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: The Performance of Services Index also moved into expansionary territory after an extended period of contraction. That means the services sector, the largest part of our economy as a whole, is growing, although modestly. Both the manufacturing and services sector results are consisted with a pick-up in economic activity at the beginning of 2025, supporting Kiwi jobs and incomes.

Paulo Garcia: What other recent economic reports has she seen?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I've seen a report from Westpac that says that dairy incomes look set to hit record highs in nominal and, perhaps, real terms. This is good news for supporting New Zealanders' jobs and incomes—go the farmers! Yesterday, Statistics New Zealand released its latest international travel stats, and this showed that there was a 12 percent increase in overseas visitors to New Zealand in the last year, the highest number since COVID. We want more tourists coming to New Zealand, opening their wallets, spending money in local businesses, supporting Kiwi jobs, and growing Kiwis' incomes.

Paulo Garcia: When is the next major economic release?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Tomorrow the Reserve Bank releases its quarterly Monetary Policy Statement (MPS). The MPS will include the bank's view of the global and domestic economy, its latest forecasts, and the Monetary Policy Committee's decision on the official cash rate (OCR). Decisions about the OCR are, of course, for the committee but the market and most economists are expecting a reduction in the OCR of 50 basis points. That would take the OCR down to 3.75 percent, supporting lower retail interest rates which, in turn, support a growing economy, jobs, and incomes for New Zealanders.

Question No. 4—Workplace Relations and Safety

4. LAURA McCLURE (ACT) to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What announcements has she made about restoring balance in employment relations?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): I've announced a plan to reintroduce pay deductions for partial strikes. This will be discussed at select committee this week. This Government has committed to this change because we need to restore balance to the rights and consequences of collective bargaining. If workers are partially striking by refusing to do their normal work, why should they get paid a normal wage? I'm also restoring balance to personal grievances by removing entitlements to remedies in situations where the employee is found to have contributed to the personal grievance. For too long, employees have been able to claim compensation for hurt and humiliation even if they were dismissed for serious misconduct. It's no wonder I've heard from so many employers who are concerned the personal grievance system is unbalanced in favour of workers.

SPEAKER: I'm sure the future supplementary answers will be slightly shorter.

Laura McClure: How will the changes you have announced to personal grievances benefit workers?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: My changes will give employers confidence that they can act to remove workers in cases of serious misconduct in order to keep other workers safe, without fear that doing so will end up costing tens of thousands of dollars in personal grievance compensation. I've heard one case where a worker was intimidating and abusive towards another worker yet the employer felt like they were between a rock and a hard place as they feared the intimidating worker might raise a personal grievance and be reinstated if they were dismissed.

Laura McClure: How will the changes you've announced to enable pay deductions for partial strikes benefit the community?

Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: Many of the examples of partial strikes we've seen in the past were designed to intentionally cause disruption to the public. Often, it's the community who loses out or are caught in the middle when partial strikes occur. When teachers refused to teach certain year groups on particular days, it was parents who paid the price by having to take unplanned leave from work in order to take care of their kids who were rostered home, not to mention the cost of lost learning for the students. When hospital-based nuclear medicine technologists limited the number of scans completed each day, it was patients waiting for their results who suffered. If communities and employers bear the negative consequences of partial strike action, it's only fair that employees do too.

Question No. 5—Finance

5. Hon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour—Mana) to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): Yes, in the context in which they were given or made.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does announcing $19 million of additional spending for conservation make up for the $125 million that was cut from conservation in her Budget?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Did the member just say the $125 billion that was cut from conservation spending? Because that would be a ludicrous figure to use in this House.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does announcing $500,000 of additional spending for tourism marketing make up for the $20 million that was cut from the "marketing New Zealand as a tourist destination" fund at Budget 2024?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, the Government stands by its decision to invest in effective marketing campaigns to bring tourists to New Zealand because that supports New Zealand jobs and incomes. On the other side of the House, they've got to make up their mind. Should we be investing more in attracting tourists, as these questions seem to suggest; or does she not think tourism is a good idea, as other of her members have suggested? I don't know which way is up or down with you guys.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: How does cutting $24 million from the New Zealand Cycle Trails, great rides, and tourism recovery fund help promote New Zealand as a tourism destination?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, investment in cycle trails continues. As a Government, we've made it very clear that where we make investments we want to make sure they're having the biggest impact for New Zealanders. Taxpayers deserve to know that when a dollar of theirs that's been taken out of their household budget is being spent by Ministers, it is going to its absolute best value and impact.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Why is she spending international visitor levy funding to attract tourists from Australia that do not pay the international visitor levy?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, we've been very clear that we want the international visitor levy to support the tourism sector growing in a way that supports New Zealanders and so it's our view that, right now, getting tourism numbers up is important. It's important for every New Zealand community who has restaurants, cafes, or tourism operators that need more people coming through their doors; it's important for all those people who would like a job but can't get one because those businesses haven't got the tourism numbers coming through the door; and it's important for businesses in the future, who we want to see investing in these industries and paying their employees more. We stand by our decision to support tourism growth.

Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does cutting major Government spending, then announcing new spending at a fraction of what was cut, count as new spending?

Hon NICOLA WILLIS: As I have outlined to the member, our focus is on ensuring that where we have dollars to invest, we are investing them for their highest impact. That means putting them into areas which will actually get tourism back to the levels it was before it was decimated after the COVID-19 border closures, and that means ensuring that we're promoting our tourism sector effectively offshore.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Minister of Finance to please put the Labour Party at ease and let them know that "everybody must go" is not our view of the Labour Party?

SPEAKER: Yeah, no, that's not a question that will be answered in the House.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: It's a request.

SPEAKER: Well, no. Well, it might be a request, but—

Rt Hon Winston Peters: What's wrong with that?

SPEAKER: Because it's question time and you ask Ministers about their responsibility, and I don't think she's got too much responsibility for that.

Rt Hon Winston Peters: She's a nice person. She wants to help.

SPEAKER: Oh, she's a lovely person, but I'm sure that the Opposition know what her sentiments are on all matters relating to them.

Question No. 7—Children

7. Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour) to the Minister for Children: Does she stand by all her statements and actions in relation to serious youth offenders and the military-style academies?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children): Yes, in the context in which they were made at the time. I especially stand by my actions to provide funding of $30.6 million over four years to continue the fast-track youth offending programme and extend the programme to 14- to 17-year-olds, which will contribute to Government Target 3, a 15 percent reduction in the total number of children and young people with serious and persistent offending behaviour.

Hon Willow-Jean Prime: What are her measures of success for the entire 12-month military-style academy (MSA) pilot?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: My measure of its success is around making sure that our communities are safe, and we are also putting in place opportunities for young people to be the best version of themselves. What they do with that is ultimately up to them.

Hon Willow-Jean Prime: Does she agree with the Children's Commissioner, who said, in terms of what works, that it is not putting young people into youth justice institutions for longer periods of time, and, if not, why not?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I think we have to take a reality check here. These young people right now, currently, under the current legislation, are ending up in youth justice facilities. They are repeat, serious youth offenders who to qualify to be part of the MSA programme must have committed two crimes with a sentence of 10 years or more. They will end up in a youth justice facility anyway. What I am doing is making sure that when that does happen, we're asking the questions of what we can do better for these young people.

Hon Willow-Jean Prime: How does the Government know already that, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, having longer length residential facility time would actually be more useful?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: What I can say is that from the first report back, it showed that there was a positive response of the in-residence, where young people were expressing that it was helpful for them. This may be an option moving forward. That's why the legislation allows flexibility to be able to make this programme work for them.

Hon Willow-Jean Prime: Are she and the Prime Minister withholding information about their pilot until they have passed the legislation, and then it will be too late and it will already be in law to lock young people up for longer?

Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I refer back to a previous answer. These young people were going to end up in a youth justice facility anyway. What we are doing is making sure that we are asking the right questions and putting the right support in place, not only for those young people but for their whānau and in the community so that they can be the best versions of themselves.

Question No. 9—Tourism and Hospitality

9. CARL BATES (National—Whanganui) to the Minister for Tourism and Hospitality: What recent announcements has she made about increasing visitor numbers to New Zealand?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Tourism and Hospitality): On Sunday, the Prime Minister and I announced a new campaign with Tourism New Zealand, encouraging Australians to pick New Zealand for their next holiday. Tourism is a crucial part of our Government's focus on economic growth, and this campaign is the first investment in our tourism boost package to bring international visitor numbers back to pre-COVID numbers. More visitors mean more full tables in restaurants, more bookings for local accommodation, more jobs across the country, and an overall stronger economy. A Kiwi holiday isn't just great for visitors; it's great for New Zealand, and we're letting our Aussie mates know that we're ready and waiting to welcome them now.

Carl Bates: How will targeting Australians improve overall visitor numbers?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Just this week, new stats show a 12 percent increase in international visitor arrivals compared to December 2023. That's an 85 percent recovery of international visitor arrivals compared to 2019. Visitor numbers from Australia are currently at about 90 percent, compared to 2019, so we know there's more room to grow. Around 4 million Australians are already actively considering a holiday in New Zealand, and this campaign will build on this momentum and encourage more of our Aussie neighbours to book now and come on over.

Carl Bates: What benefits does she expect to see as a result of this campaign?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON: The benefits of growing these visitor numbers will reach beyond our cities and into our regions: 93 percent of New Zealanders see benefits from increased tourism. And it isn't just the tourism dollars; they know as soon as someone lands on our shores, they start paying GST. Every time a tourist comes to New Zealand and spends money at a local shop, buys dinner at a local cafe, it's good for jobs, it's good for growth, and it's good for the incomes of New Zealand families. When tourism grows, so does our economy.

Carl Bates: What feedback has she received on this announcement?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON: The feedback has been fantastic. Everybody is talking about it. Hospitality New Zealand is excited to get more people enjoying New Zealand hospitality, in the pivotal role that it plays in supporting the Government's economic growth agenda. New Zealand Airports Association has said, "This is a critical first step in growing tourism and ensuring its benefits are distributed across the economy. Increased visitor numbers translate to more spending in hospitality, greater regional development, and stronger air cargo capacity,". Australia is the focus of this campaign, and you can expect the same energy and enthusiasm as we announce the rest of our tourism boost.

Cushla Tangaere-Manuel: How does she address the concerns of the community of Tekapō, who are already facing infrastructure deficits and whose ratepayers will face an inequitable burden in covering the cost of this Government's so-called growth agenda?

Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I've said, there are a couple of areas—Tekapō is one—where I know the mayor is concerned about it. But the reality is the majority of New Zealand recognise that we want more visitors; 93 percent of New Zealanders realise how it's good for New Zealand, and they know it's a critical part of growing the wealth of New Zealand.

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