'The Nation'

Panel With Tony Ryall
Hosted By Stephen Parker

STEPHEN Our guest this morning is State Services Minister Tony Ryall, and I'm joined by our panellists. Tony I just want to follow up on a quick question from your comments earlier. You mentioned that several hundred more jobs may go from the state sector. Areas that look like they could be under pressure are ACC and IRD, are these areas where you would expect more jobs to go from?

TONY We've already seen quite significant job changes, reductions in the Inland Revenue Department. We know that there's further changes in the Ministry of Health coming. There will be reductions in staff numbers across a whole lot of government agencies, and a real commitment to improving the service they're providing the public, but you'll continue also to see increases in staff numbers in a number of government agencies that are important for public safety. For example you'll be seeing more Prison Officers, Police Officers, Community Probation staff, WINZ workers for example, those numbers will continue to increase, but you will see reductions in many departments across the board, as they live within quite tighter budgets with a stronger focus on productivity and improving the service that they provide you.

STEPHEN Time to bring in the panel, Chris Trotter you have the floor.

CHRIS TROTTER – Political Commentator
Tony there's an American lobbyist who once said 'we've gotta shrink down the size of the state until we can drown it in a bathtub'. Now is that the National Party's long term aim, are you driven long term by a desire to really reduce the size of the state in New Zealand, is this what your overall intention is?

TONY Well our overall intention is to make sure that we've got a productive public service that’s contributing to improving front line services, and is contributing to our economic recovery. We have been working from day one to make sure that we're getting best value for what the taxpayers are investing. We've had the line by line spending reviews, we've capped the budgets for many of the departments for the next three to five years. That is what our plan is, it's not a slash and burn, it is a longer term approach in order to get best value for your money.

CHRIS But long term surely the smaller the size of your state sector the better the result from the point of view of conservative politicians, the less tax you'll have to raise to pay for that public sector. Surely there is this long term direction that conservative governments like your own are following around the world?

TONY Well I think all New Zealanders realise two things. One is that they want to keep more of their tax dollars, and secondly money that is being spent by the government has to be spent to best value, that’s why we've got this strong focus on improving the performance of the public service. Over time you are going to see fewer people working in the public service as we have a stronger focus on getting value for money for every dollar that you are putting in. But please don’t think that this is some sort of slash and burn. When you consider what is happening internationally with pay freezes, staff cuts, pay cuts in many parts of the world, New Zealand is taking a moderate and considerate and longer term approach to dealing with these challenges.

STEPHEN Can I bring in Noelle McCarthy here please.

NOELLE McCARTHY – Columnist
Good morning Tony, you’ve praised the state service for restraint, and you’ve been doing that this morning, but what about local government, their wage increases have been out of step with the rest of the state sector, and you’ve said that.

TONY Well there's no doubt about that, local government pay increases are currently running at three times the level within the core public service. That’s a matter that ratepayers and councils are going to have to deal with. Sure if they feel that they're getting improved productivity and better value for money, that’s a choice that they can make, but this is something that is outside the scope of the state sector's portfolio, but certainly something that Mayors, Councillors and Ratepayers should be having a look at.

NOELLE I was also interested in your comments to the State Services Leaders' Conference last week, about looking at public and private partnerships. What might that look like?

TONY Well you already see in a number of government departments a smart use of the private sector in order to give you, you know best value for the money that you're putting, for example the Correction Service is looking at getting the private sector to come in and manage a prison or two. Here in the Health Service for example, we already have the private sector providing a lot of the elective surgery increase that we're seeing around the country, cervical screening, breast screening is run by the private sector under contract. The message the government's giving to the public service is look don’t rule out the option of a smart use of the private sector if it means we can get good value for the investment that taxpayers are making.

CHRIS How far would you take that? You look at the Australian situation for example where a lot of you know the job search and job placement is now almost entirely in the hands of a private sector organisation. You know is it the view of this government that there is a space that cannot be encroached upon by the private sector, in terms of public services, or do you think that theoretically at least, it is possible for the private sector to handle just about all of the government's service delivery?

TONY Well we're not taking an ideological view to this Chris, it's really a matter of what works and what's best for the taxpayers. Now there will be circumstances I'm sure where a public sector delivery is the best way to deal with it. What we're saying to the public service is let's at least look at the option in some of these situations where you could contract it out to the private sector or community organisations to do the work. Again the focus has got to be on what is the best way to invest that taxpayers' money in order to get the best deal for taxpayers, and we're asking the public service to look at those options.

CHRIS What will this do to the whole concept of public service. If the whole thrust as you’ve described it this morning, is to get value for money, what actually happens to that almost indefinable quality of public service which has nothing to do with money, which has everything to do with the service to the public?

TONY Well I'm glad you mentioned the word service, cos often that’s a phrase that gets left out of the considerations of public service. The service is about what we can provide the taxpayers and the users, the customers, the clients of the various services that the government is providing, and the real focus has to be on actually providing good quality services. Now whether that’s done by the private sector or a community group, that’s an option that departments should look at.

STEPHEN Tony Ryall, State Services Minister, thank you for your time this morning, it's appreciated.

ENDS

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