More moves to support National Standards

Education Minister Anne Tolley has confirmed there will be more Government moves to support National Standards before the year is out.

Speaking on TV3’s The Nation this morning, Mrs Tolley said the changes would “better target support” to schools to help them deal with children the standards identified as failing.

“We might need to have some trials of different support systems, some different tools and techniques to assist teachers, and if they're not working, yes we do need to change them.”

National Standards were introduced in primary and intermediate schools at the beginning of the year. They aim to provide parents with easy to understand information about their child’s academic progress compared to others around the country.

This is the first year in a three year implementation programme.

“For the next stage we have got $36million extra in the budget available from the beginning of next year, so that’s the next conversation” Mrs Tolley said.

What that money will be used for is, at this stage, unclear.

“We will be making announcements in the next couple of months. I'm taking a paper through Cabinet at the moment that identifies the next steps, and I'll make those announcements when that has finally been decided.”

But she ruled out introducing performance pay for teachers as part of that package.

And she was unwilling to make an open ended commitment to the programme.

“What I’ve said all along is we’ve got to do what works.”

The Minster is in Christchurch this weekend addressing the New Zealand School Trustees Association.

'The Nation'

Anne Tolley
Interviewed By Duncan Garner

DUNCAN National standards in primary and intermediate schools are a crucial National Party policy, and this is the year schools are supposed to be getting to grips with a new way of measuring students' success, but Principals as you’ve probably seen on the news lately are refusing to behave, saying the policy is flawed and unworkable, and that’s the nice bit. Education Minister Anne Tolley is in Christchurch to address the New Zealand School Trustees Association and joins me now. Minister good morning. Thanks for coming on the programme. I just wanted to ask you firstly, the School Trustees Association they effectively are the parents. Who is the education system for, is it for the teachers or is it for the parents by way of the kids?

ANNE TOLLEY – Education Minister
Well our education system is really for the children. We have a publically funded education system, and we have a very devolved system in New Zealand and we have communities running our schools, and those communities elect a Board of Trustees, so really the Board of Trustees are a little Crown entity all on their own. Parents run our schools.

DUNCAN So what you're saying, they're in charge. This is a bit of a direction from you to the teachers that they are not in charge of the schools, especially around national standards?

ANNE That’s right, it's the Boards of Trustees that the government holds responsible for running the schools, for managing the finances, and hold accountable then for the education that happens at those schools.

DUNCAN But doesn’t that in some ways also have a bit of disrespect for teachers, because I mean you’ve clearly got offside with a lot of them over this national standard debate, and that kind of view sort of seems to see them sidelined a bit doesn’t it, it's quite an aggressive view isn't it?

ANNE Well first of all I don’t think I've got offside with a lot of the teachers, many many teachers that I talk to are happily getting on with implementing the standards. The union factor has been campaigning actively against the standards. Funnily enough they were very actively involved in developing the standards throughout last year, and at the end of the years suddenly decided they weren’t going to support their implementation, but by and large teachers are getting on with it.

DUNCAN You’ve talked about the silent majority being the parents that support this. I don’t know if you’ve picked up the Dominion Post this morning but there is a letter to the Editor in there from a woman called Ruth Mansell, she's obviously a grandmother. I just want to read you this. "At my granddaughter's school parents are bewildered to find that children who have for the past seven years been achieving very highly are suddenly receiving ratings below or at the standard" and she goes on to say that the teachers are embarrassed at being able to give any good reason. You’ve got a problem here haven't you?

ANNE Well no I think we have a problem, and particularly around reading, and the international studies show that whilst our average is about the same as other developed countries, actually the standard of our reading has not improved over the last ten years, and that’s a problem for our young people, and yes we make no apology for the fact that the national standards are looking to lift student achievement. The national standards are just benchmarks that show across the country what children should be expected to know in reading and writing, and by when and they're aligned through to NCEA level 2.

DUNCAN Are you saying then that this grandmother who's worried about her granddaughter and other parents at the school, that they’ve been failing for seven years and the school has been effectively covering it up, because you finding says they're not up to it?

ANNE I don’t know of that particular case, but that’s what many parents have been writing and telling me that the schools for quite some time have been saying – and this is a coming story that I heard during the election campaign, the schools have been saying you know little Johnnie's a delight to have in class, you know he's having some difficulties but look he'll be okay, he's gonna learn in his own time. And actually when that child starts at intermediate or high school they find that Johnnie has not progressed as he should have and he's way behind, and if they'd known earlier on and been able to put more support in behind Johnnie, he would have done much better.

DUNCAN I just want to look at some of the comments that Professor Hattie has made, and Professor Hattie for the viewers out there, of course is the expert on this, and he's on your advisory group and he's been involved right at the start. But he effectively says that without the teachers on board implementing this and agreeing to it, that it won't work, and he said this in a public lecture in Wellington two weeks ago. I mean that’s concerning for you as a Minister isn't it? How are you going to get the teachers on board cos you need them, according to your expert?

ANNE Well Professor Hattie is a renowned expert in assessment.

DUNCAN How do you get your teachers on board Minister?

ANNE Well I think that most of the teachers are getting on with implementing the standards. Certainly that’s the information that I have. When you talk to – there's a big conference here of the Boards of Trustees, they're saying their schools are getting on with implementing the standards. I respect the professionalism of teachers and they know that this is a government policy and they are implementing it. The really crucial part that I think most teachers will relate to is what comes next. So having identified those children who aren't progressing, what do we do about them, how can we support those teachers? And that’s the conversation that I'll be having with them in the next few months.

DUNCAN Well you’ve brought it up what happens next. I mean Professor Hattie again in his public lecture on June 16 said that the standards should be abandoned if they do not focus on improving children's education. It's all very well isn't it saying that Johnnie's failing here, Chloe's failing here. What is your plan for making sure it improves their education levels, cos he's concerned about it.

ANNE And he's absolutely right, this is what I've been saying to the sector all the time, this is the first step, so the actual implementation of the standards this year is the first step in the three year implementation programme. It is making sure that we do use the assessment data that most schools produce to identify where a child isn't progressing, and in the reports that they have to make to parents, one of the things they do talk to parents about is what can parents do to help with that child, what's the school going to do, and what can parents do to help that child progress. The next stage we've got 36 million dollars extra in the budget available from the beginning of next year, so that’s the next conversation, and that I think completes – the standards are just benchmarks, they in themselves won't do anything ...

DUNCAN No but the final benchmark in all this isn't it, is if in two years' time, you know the next election, 18 months' time next election, or even the election after that, that you need to be able to stand up and say it's now only one in three New Zealand kids are failing. Now if you can't stand up and do that, what is the point of national standards?

ANNE Well that’s what the national standards are designed to address. We've had this one in five children failing in our system now, we've talked about it for ten years, this government's said we've talked enough, we're going to take some action, and yes in about five years' time we should start being able to quantify the differences that the national standards policy has made.

DUNCAN You talked about that 36 million dollars, what is it, where is that money going to those kids and those teachers, and what are you guaranteeing parents here today that you will do to make sure that their child, whose getting Fs and fails at the moment, from just looking at this letter in the paper this morning, what can you guarantee and that you will do with that money?

ANNE Well we'll be making announcements in the next couple of months. I'm taking a paper through Cabinet at the moment that identifies the next steps, and I'll make those announcements when that’s finally been decided.

DUNCAN So you’ve got a host of announcements really to go because you're in this implementation phase at the moment, a lot of people call it a trial.

ANNE No it's not a trial.

DUNCAN Well it's an embedding year, same thing isn't it?

ANNE No, what I've said is this implementation of the standards is a three year implementation programme. We're evaluating it and monitoring it during those three years, we're making changes as are necessary. This year's certainly a year to bed down the standards in schools, but we're not trialling this, we've trialled not having the standards and children have continued to fail.

DUNCAN So those changes you were talking about going through Cabinet, we'll see them obviously before Christmas, 36 million dollars. Are these going to be major changes in the education sector, is this targeting of kids that are failing?

ANNE I think we need to have some better targeting of support ...

DUNCAN So that money Minister is going to go to failing kids?

ANNE It's that money I have always said will go to support the outcomes of the national standards.

DUNCAN So in terms of the implementation can you guarantee, and we'll get you on the programme in a couple of years time, can you guarantee as the Minister, this is what parents want to know, that national standards will actually work and will see that their kids actually do better. Can you guarantee that we will see those statistics drop for the kids, the one in five that you talk about that can't read and write properly?

ANNE I as a Minister can only put in place policies, but I can guarantee to parents that the achievement of students, and the raising of the achievement of students is our top priority, and we will do whatever we can to assist parents to see that that happens for their children in the state schooling system.

DUNCAN If that 36 million dollars, that targeted money which over the country may not actually be a lot of money depending on how many students we're talking about, if that actually doesn’t make an impact, and if as Professor Hattie says that achievements aren't going up, would this programme be abandoned, or will you hold on to it at all costs for your own political credibililty?

ANNE Oh I think what I've said all along is, we've gotta do what works.

DUNCAN Will you stick to it Minister? Are you saying that you're wedded to this programme?

ANNE Well national standards are just a set of expectations. What will make the difference for children is not the actual assessment of where they are. What will make a difference to children's achievement is what happens next, both in the classroom and at home.

DUNCAN What I'm trying to get from you is, if in two years' time you do not see the results you're hoping for, would you chuck it out the window?

ANNE No I think we would have a look at what's happening in the classroom before you actually change the expectations. I don’t think the expectations of what children should have learnt will change dramatically, it's what you're actually doing that changes what's happening for those children, that’s where you have to have a look, and we might need to have some trials of different support systems, some different tools and techniques to assist teachers, and if they're not working, yes we do need to change them.

DUNCAN Okay that’s right, I think there's some major changes coming. Thank you very much Minister for coming into the studio.

ENDS

© Scoop Media