Independent Maori Statutory Board releases plan for Auckland
Independent Maori Statutory Board releases ambitious plan for Auckland on Marae Investigates
The
Independent Maori Statutory Board has released an ambitious
plan for the future of Auckland Māori that could cost the
city more than $30 million a year. Launching the plan on
TVNZ’s Marae Investigates programme this morning, the
Board Chairman David Taipari said Auckland Council had not
met its obligations to Māori in the past and that had to
change.
A Board commissioned audit of the
Auckland Council found it failed to meet many of its
obligations to Māori under the treaty of Waitangi.
David Taipari told the programme “I think the fact that
Council didn’t even understand or have knowledge of their
own obligations is a big problem because without that first
and foremost, how can you get change. But there’s
capacity, there’s the knowledge of obligations, there’s
the consultation and engagement, there’s the lack of
policy and procedures, its right across the board.”
Mayor Len Brown admitted the failings telling Marae
Investigates “The report is fair, It’s a D for do
better.” He said the Council is committed to doing
better. He was also positive about the Board’s Māori
plan and told the programme it was realistic. “It will
become a reality. Not all of it … no one gets everything
they want but good parts of this plan will become a reality
because it is our present and our future. We are the
largest Pacific – Polynesian city in the world. We’re
the largest Māori city in the world and I think Aucklanders
are in a frame where they want to reflect and respect
that. Some aren’t but most are. And for example we
cannot promote Tāmaki Makaurau as a great city, a true
international destination without having a clear reflector
within that brand of Māori.”
The plan, among
other things calls on the Auckland Council to support
social, economic and cultural initiatives for Māori
including support for marae, the building of a cultural arts
centre and support for te reo to be made compulsory in
Auckland schools.
Tahu Kukutai, Senior
Research Fellow, National Institute of Demographic and
Economic Analysis, who helped research the plan, discounted
concerns critics may have that it covers areas Councils
shouldn’t be involved in. “I think if you look around
the world there’s a whole bunch of local governments and
state governments who have set up these ambitious plans,
long term plans to enhance the wellbeing of their people.
It’s not just about roads, rates and rubbish. And once you
get into the business, as ISMB are, of enhancing the
wellbeing of Māori, you have to think about the long term
aspirations”
However David Taipari admits the
plan along with its $29.5 million per year budget might be
hard to sell to some ratepayers. “I accept that and
Māori are ratepayers so let’s not forget that. I
think it should be more than that. I mean we’re talking
about a $3.3 billion budget per annum and we’re talking 1%
of that budget.”
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT FROM
MARAE INVESTIGATES 2ND SEPTEMBER 2012. MIRIAMA KAMO,
PRESENTER, TALKS TO DAVID TAIPARI, CHAIRMAN OF THE
INDEPENDENT STATUTORY BOARD AND RESEARCHER TAHU KUKUTAI
SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF DEMOGRAPHIC
AND ECNOMIC ANALYSIS, UNIVERSITY OF WAIKATO.
TRANSCRIPT INCLUDES A PRE-RECORDED SEGMENT WITH MAYOR LEN BROWN.
THE COPYRIGHT OF THIS TRANSCRIPT BELONGS TO TVNZ’S MARAE INVESTIGATES PROGRAMME, ANY REPLICATION OR PUBLISHING OF IT OR SEGMENTS OF IT SHOULD CONTAIN AN ATTRIBUTION TO MARAE INVESTIGATES
Mirama Kamo
The Mayor said a D for D
Better – a fair assessment of his Council’s performance
David Taipari?
David Taipari
I think so in terms of the
audit though it needs to be understood that this is a
benchmark and it’s from this point forward that we see
that improvement and council’s made a genuine commitment
to that by investing a fund this year to the monitoring of
the systemic change that’s required.
Miriama Kamo
How
could the council have been in any doubt about its legal
obligations to Māori though?
David Taipari
It’s a
bit hard to answer that. All I know is that local government
in my view have struggled for decades across the country and
I don’t think this is just unique to Auckland Council ah
but this is a great opportunity for Māori, at the foresight
of Parliament by introducing the Statutory Board, to be able
to make that change and seek that change.
Miriama
Kamo
So what was the most disturbing finding of the audit
for you?
David Taipari
Again I don’t think it’s
about one thing it’s about the holistic nature of it. I
think the fact that Council didn’t even understand or have
knowledge of their own obligations is a big problem because
without that first and foremost, how can you get change.
But there’s capacity, there’s the knowledge of
obligations, there’s the consultation and engagement,
there’s the lack of policy and procedures, its right
across the board.
Miriama Kamo
It just goes on and on
and on. In fact the audit just has red pretty much right
through it doesn’t it?
David Taipari
It does and
again. That’s a fair reflection of the current state of
affairs but I think with the investment and implementation
of the monitoring and evaluation and our introduction of our
new plan I think we’re going to see that change sooner
than most would think.
Miriama Kamo
Do you think we
might have found out what the failings were if we had seats
rather than a board?
David Taipari
I don’t know if we
would have found out any failings if we’d had seats. I
think it may have been perpetuated in terms of just getting
caught up in the mix. I think the board was an excellent
choice that Parliament made and I don’t say that because
I’m on it. I just know that when I’m not on it, it
will still be an excellent thing that I will support
strongly because change is absolutely required.
Miriama
Kamo
So Tahu what is this, is it a wish list?
Tahu
Kukutai
No I don’t think it’s a wish list at all.
These initiatives really need to be seen in the overall
context of the plan and the Māori plan for Tāmaki Makaurau
is a long term plan that sets out really clearly the
aspirations for Māori as a collective over the long term,
where we want to be in 10, 20, 30 years’ time. It puts
some goal outcomes around those aspirations, recommends some
initiatives to try to move those outcomes forward and then
puts in place a robust monitoring framework so we can see,
is progress occurring, what needs to be done. And I think
what came through really clearly in that vox pop that you
had earlier on is that Māori are a really diverse
population within Tāmaki Makarau, more so than other parts
of Aotearoa but neither the less, they still want to see
their distinctive entity more firmly embedded.
Miriama
Kamo
Māori want to see that but the challenge is going
to be to sell it to ratepayers … to sell it to
Aucklanders. Making te reo in schools compulsory – how is
that council business?
Tahu Kukutai
I think if you look
around the world there’s a whole bunch of local
governments and state governments who have set up these
ambitious plans, long term plans to enhance the wellbeing of
their people. It’s not just about roads, rates and
rubbish. And once you get into the business, as ISMB are, of
enhancing the wellbeing of Māori, you have to think about
the long term aspirations.
Miriama Kamo
Do you think
the Council sees its role as not just being about rates and
rubbish and roads and that te reo Māori - making that
compulsory should be part of their business?
Tahu Kukutai
Well I was quite heartened to see that the Mayor Len
Brown says that absolutely the Council needs to do more. I
think it would be a mistake to focus on the specific
initiatives like for example compulsory te reo in schools
because the broader point is that Maori want to see their
distinctive identity more embedded in Auckland and that’s
going to involve some bold ideas it’s not just business as
usual and so that might be expressed through te reo Māori
in schools, it might be expressed through more
Māori-centric urban design principals …
Miriama
Kamo
Or an arts festival or building an arts centre …
David Taipari there are some big ticket items in here. Is it
realistic?
David Taipari
Sure, so it’s good to know
that Māori have their sights see high because this is about
them. The plan is for them and it’s been told to us, this
is what they want and we’ve got to do what we can with
Auckland Council. We know that there are going to be other
agencies, Central Government, the community and Māori as a
whole that have to contribute to these things. So it’s not
a one place you do it all, it’s about here’s what Maori
want let’s get on and do it.
Miriama Kamo
Does the
Mayor see it becoming a reality?
Mayor Len Brown
(pre-recorded interview)
“Of course it will. It will
become a reality. Not all of it … no one gets everything
they want but good parts of this plan will become a reality
because it is our present and our future. We are the
largest Pacific – Polynesian city in the world. We’re
the largest Māori city in the world and I think Aucklanders
are in a frame where they want to reflect and respect that.
Some aren’t but most are. And for example we cannot
promote Tāmaki Makaurau as a great city, a true
international destination without having a clear reflector
within that brand of Māori.
Tahuri Tumoana
Are you
afraid that you’ll be seen as pandering to Māori by
accepting any off this?
Mayor Len Brown
No – I say
no to that question. I think the city and this nation has a
great future respecting the unique position of Manu Whenua
and the Tangata Whenua in that.
Miriama Kamo
So the
Mayor there is very careful of his wording, how much of the
plan do you want to see implemented.
David Taipari
All
of it of course.
Miriama Kamo
Well realistically what
do you think your success rate is going to be
here?
David Taipari
We’re being realistic in
terms of this is the plan. Again this is not going to
happen overnight so I don’t know where someone can make
the judgement that this is not going to happen.
Miriama
Kamo
So the Mayor’s saying …we’re interested in
this but you’re not going to get everything you want, no
one gets everything they want.
David Taipari
Sure but
the Mayor also needs to acknowledge and I know that he does
that this plan will align with the Auckland plan. There’s
a number of aspirations within the 30 year plan of Auckland
that if I sat here and said ‘that aint going to happen’
how fair would that be. I need to give it that time and
that opportunity, same needs to apply here.
Miriama
Kamo
How much is this going to cost?
David
Taipari
Well again we need to use this document, the
plan, the audit and issues of significance that we had. At
the moment we believe Māori outcomes need to be met and
we’ve got those in volume II of the long term plan.
That’s a minimum of $295 million for the next ten years or
25 years or $29.5 per annum and we believe that that’s a
starting point. We will create an implementation plan from
the Māori plan and we’ll be able to realise and detail
that more as we go along but it won’t be any less than
what I’m saying $295 million because we’ve already
realised that.
Miriama Kamo
So nearly $30 million a
year is what you’re asking for?
David Taipari
I think
it should be more than that. I mean we’re talking about a
$3.3 billion budget per annum and we’re talking 1% of that
budget.
Miriama Kamo
So you think this is a modest
amount but we know that ratepayers are going to be pretty
concerned about this.
David Taipari
I accept that and
Māori are ratepayers so let’s not forget that. But the
reality is that we’re just talking about the Māori city
of the world, we’re just talking about Māori needing
identity ...we’re needing to reflect all these thing. You
can’t do it without investing in all of that.
Miriama
Kamo
But how do you convince all ratepayers that this is
a good way to spend money?
David Taipari
I don’t
believe all Auckland ratepayers are convinced on every
matter that relates to the Auckland plan. What we need to
do is ensure that the governing body that makes the
decisions and those of our Board that are with them make the
right decisions for the right things for the right purpose
and this plan justifies that right purpose.
Miriama
Kamo
And what do you think the Council’s response will
be to $30million a year?
David Taipari
Well of course
some will be ‘that’s too much’ some will say
‘that’s not enough’. Again what I’m more worried
about is the final decision of each thing. It’s the job of
the Board now in support of Māori to get that realised and
I think that Māori will be more confident now when they get
further engagement and direct engagement with Council to
have their projects and investments realised. This will
benefit Auckland. It’s not just about benefiting
Māori.
Miriama Kamo
So are you holding your hand out
with hope or does the Council actually have an
obligation?
David Taipari
Oh absolutely Council has an
obligation, the LGA, the RMA and the like.
Miriama
Kamo
So there’s a legal obligation to implement at
least parts of this plan you’re saying?
David
Taipari
Yep I do believe that.
Miriama Kamo
The
whole of the plan?
David Taipari
Well I believe as I
say there will be components of Auckland Council, components
of Central Government, community and Māori at large to
invest in this plan. I know that with treaty settlements
pending everyone’s going to want to help Māori spend
their money there… so it’s about time Māori helped
everyone spend their money in the right places as
well.
Miriama Kamo
Do you think you’ve got much of a
fight on your hands?
David Taipari
No more or no less
than there’s been for the last 150 years plus, I mean
there’s always been a fight going on but the reality is
we’re taking this on a professional approach, we’re
taking this with strong rationale and we’re knowing this
is what the people want not what the 9 members of the Board
want but what the people of Tāmaki Makaurau want.
Miriama Kamo
Tahu I asked you before about, we termed
it as a wish list, but of course it’s not there’s
science as you say behind it. What do you mean by
that?
Tahu Kukutai
I think the most important thing to
remember as David has pointed out is that this is firmly
based in the aspirations of Māori of Tāmaki Makaurau.
It’s not actually a plan for the Auckland Council, it’s
a plan for Māori and we did extensive consultations with
the Manu Whenua, Mataawaka and the Rangatahi groups as well
and no where did they say – oh we’d be happy for our
mokopuna in 30 years’ time to have education outcomes
about 60% as good as non-Māori. No where did they say
we’d be happy to have our cultural capability enhanced in
the Marae but we don’t want to see ourselves in the
city.
Miriama Kamo
Was there a number one
response?
Tahu Kukutai
No the aspirations were
ambitious but I think if there was one single thing that
unified all those diverse groups within Tāmaki Makaurau it
was about distinctive identity whatever that means and
making that more visible in the city.
Miriama
Kamo
So David, what does this mean for other Councils
around NZ?
David Taipari
Oh I hope the lights opening
up in their eyes and they’re all realising that they did
wrong in the past and it’s time to have change as well and
I think that if they use the platform of what’s occurring
in Auckland that I think there are some good tools here that
can be used right across the country and I’m a strong
supporter of other Statutory Boards being realised across
the country because that independent nature that we have
enables some real robust discussions to be had ….for
people to wake up and understand this is not just about one
culture this is about NZ and it’s got a number of cultures
and in particular has a Tangata Whenua and so this is where
we’re coming from and I think it’s exciting, I really do
and I don’t think it’s going to happen by next week and
I don’t think it’s going to happen all in the next 3
years but in 30 years’ time plus, there’s going to be a
range of things change. I’ve seen a bit of change in fact
quite a lot of change in the last two years,
Miriama
Kamo
What in council?
David Taipari
Yeah, in
terms of our participation, our advocacy around the table
that’s changed.
Miriama Kamo
So you feel that the
Statutory board has done a good job, do you think Auckland
Council now wishes it had gone for the Māori seats?
David
Taipari
I think most people would have liked to have gone
for Māori seats except for Māori Māori who are quite
happy. I mean the other day I did a briefing for the Manu
Whenua and Mataawaka in Auckland. They’re very pleased I
think with the way it’s gone and they’re happy that in
fact they have 9 seats.
Miriama Kamo
In fact you told
me earlier that when you’ve gone to speak to other
councils some of them have come back after you’ve spoke to
them and said …we’re not going for a board. Clearly too
much power there...
David Taipari
Yeah it’s certainly
encouraged them to think about having Māori seats but
that’s been an improvement because they didn’t even
think about that before we were there so…
I know also
since we’ve been to other places that they’re talking
about boards as well and I know I believe the Local
Government Commission will support that and I believe
Parliament has already supported that and I can’t see why
they wouldn’t put that across the country.
Miriama
Kamo
What’s your pitch to get this plan through to
ratepayers?
David Taipari
Let us get the implementation
plan in place. Let us allow the measurements and indicators
to be had. Let us measure the success rather than crystal
ball gaze and throw sticks and stones at it, let us see the
achievements first before we mock it to death and that’s
all I ask
for.