Lisa Owen interviews NZ First leader Winston Peters

Lisa Owen: Well, Labour, New Zealand First and the Greens have all this week renewed their calls for foreign-buyer restrictions. So I'm joined now by New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters. Mr Peters, Juwai is predicting, as you heard there, 15% to 20% growth in sales in the next year, and more to come after that. Should we be worried?

Winston Peters: Well, first of all, don't blame the Chinese or any other foreigner seeking to buy land in this country when it's to their advantage. You've got to blame rather naive, know-nothing, stupid politicians who think that foreign investment is all good. But often it's just a pure takeover, and it's happened so much in commercial as in residential property. That's the first thing. The second thing is what you've got there is a paid agent, an apologist for what's going on, and he does not explain the long-term ramifications with respect to pricing in this country. Demand in Auckland is seriously exacerbated when there's no supply. It's not a good picture at all, but don't blame the Chinese for the naivety of the New Zealand political system.

There's a couple of things there. There's been a report in Australia this week, where experts have said it actually has some benefit having foreign investments, so it's not just a paid apologist. It is a government report in Australia saying it is bringing new capital into Australia; it is meaning that there are more houses being built. So there is an upside, isn't there?

Excuse me? Are there more houses being built in Auckland. You've got thousands and thousands of consents being sold off by the government as though they're houses. You can't live in a consent. You've got to have a house put on it, and it's not happening in Auckland at all.

But the suggestion is that Chinese buyers like to live in new houses, Mr Peters, so therefore people will build new houses for Chinese foreign buyers to move into.

Look, the evidence from the Australian inquiry is that they were not buying new houses, cos that was part of being permissible. No, they were buying existing houses by getting round the rules. And they're buying existing houses here. Go and have a look at Herne Bay.

A small percentage of people in Australia, not everybody. That was what—

Enough to be of serious concern to the Senate inquiry in Australia. But the real point is here. This is about consumption. It's not about production, export growth and all the things on which we are told this is so good for us, because it has these effects. No, it's purely about consumption, and exacerbating the consumption in an economy where the exports as against GDP has fallen from 33% heading for 26%. Any other exporter would die, so this sort of what I would say is apologetic language just won't wash.

So you don't accept the claim that it helps stimulate construction and the construction industry?

Well, has it?

I'm asking you.

Well, look, all the evidence says the very contrary. The Christchurch rebuild is something that's necessary, but in Auckland— what are the rates of house building in Auckland? It's pathetic. And you've got an exacerbated demand from mass immigration at 46,000 now per annum, mostly coming to Auckland. Then offshore buying as well, mostly coming to Auckland. And then the thing that he ignored — what about the land buying on the outskirts of Auckland?

OK, so saying all that, Mr Peters, Australia is considering tougher new rules. Should we be looking at things like that as well?

I'm astonished you should ask that question. You threw the Greens and Labour Party in when you know full well we've had a bill to do this— to have a register so we might know what's going on in our country for a long time.

Outside of that, Mr Peters, outside the foreign register, should we only allow foreigners to buy new builds?

Well, that may be part of a future proposal, because you could not say in that circumstance that they were competing with a New Zealand first-home buyer or someone else.

So you would support that —

I'm not saying that.

Restricting to new builds?

Let's not skirt around what's the advantages. First of all, you can't freehold buy in China, so it's a great advantage. Secondly, as the Chinese prem— president said, our number one problem is corruption. There's a lot of money being laundered to come here. Ask any Chinese who's in the know. The other thing is there are no taxation disadvantages for them. They have also on top of that—

So if—

No, no, one more thing.

If Australia is bringing in these tougher regulations; they have restrictions where we don't; and they're going to toughen them up, how worried are you that those buyers who would have been shopping in Australia will now be coming here to shop for their houses?

They're already shopping here. He said we're number seven in the Chinese market. No, we're number five and climbing. The second thing is last year offshore residential buying from China was $37 billion, and we're right up there as one of the preferred countries, even though we're a long way away from China. Why would that be? Because unlike the explanation he gave, we don't have any restrictions. In fact, you've got all sorts of apologists out there and real estate agencies all saying it's great for the country while they clip the ticket and the rest of the country suffers. Then— And high interest rates—

You have been pushing for this foreign-buyers register—

For a long time.

...and initially government said no, absolutely not. We've seen some movement. Bill English said, 'Oh yeah, we could be interested in some information,' and now they're saying they're gonna watch Australia. So is there some movement? Can you get your way on this?

Well, if we don't, then the New Zealand people out there will have no excuse for what's going on. They're being hit from Kaitaia to Invercargill with higher interest rates, four times this year; loans-to-value ratios doubled this year — why that would affect Murupara, Kaitaia and everywhere else, I don't know — all because of what's going on here in Auckland. So the New Zealand people will decide that issue by expressing their desire not to have it go on any longer.

Thank you for joining me this morning, Winston Peters, leader of New Zealand First.

Thank you. This is a told-you-so moment.

Transcript provided by Able. www.able.co.nz

ENDS

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