On The Nation:
Lisa Owen interviews NZ First deputy leader Ron Mark

Denies any division in NZ First over the vote that saw him replace Tracey Martin as deputy leader and then a three-day wait before it was announced.

“Nobody abstained, and the fact that that’s even a conversation is absolutely quite bizarre”

Mark says “we don't find it strange at all” that there was a three-day silence until his new role was revealed

Says no-one is thinking yet about who might eventually replace Winston Peters as leader.

“Mark my words, he hasn’t finished yet, and if anyone thinks that Winston Peters is finished, all I’d say is smell the coffee.”

Lisa Owen: Good morning, Mr Mark, and congratulations.
Ron Mark: Thank you, Lisa. Good morning.
It was all a bit weird, wasn't it? It was quite strange. A vote takes place on Tuesday. There's this secrecy. Not announced until Friday. I mean, why was it like that?
Well, we don't find it strange at all. The Caucus had agreed that there would be an election. It should have been conducted earlier, as is always the case. I think all political parties reaffirm their lead appointments at the start of a new term. We got delayed with a few distractions. A little thing happened up in Northland that kept us busy for a while, and then we finally decided about four weeks ago that that would happen. And once the votes were taken and the leader was confirmed, and the deputy leader was confirmed... The vote was taken on that. We also established an assistant whip which we hadn't had before. The Caucus determined that that should take effect as of the Friday at 10 o'clock, which gave people the chance to see what was left of that session, and we could go to the recess and come back tooled and ready to go. So, that was a Caucus decision to hold it till Friday, and so with effect 10 o'clock Friday, that was when their decision took effect, so...
So how did the vote go? Did you have a clear majority?
Oh, votes are always done in secret, and the votes were counted up by someone who wasn't an MP, and, actually, no one knows the result.
Do you know the split?
No one knows the result... No one knows what the votes were at the end of the day.
Everyone knows the result. But we've been told that initially it was a draw. So was it a draw — straight down the middle?
Oh. You guys were saying all sorts of things that there was... Well, clearly it wasn't a draw. You know, people were saying that we were having a crisis meeting yesterday. Well, I was in Parliament buildings yesterday; so was Pita Paraone and so was Ria Bond. But we were all doing different things. So that was rubbish. There was all sorts of speculation about a coup.
So why don't you tell us about what did happen?
Be very clear, I think going back as far as 1993... Well, what happens in Caucus is confidential. You know that. Experienced journalists know that.
Did Winston Peters vote for you?
I wouldn’t have a clue, actually.
So were there 12 votes cast? Because we’re also hearing that someone abstained.
Oh, for God’s sake. See, this is the trouble. I mean… Nobody abstained, and the fact that that’s even a conversation is absolutely quite bizarre, but then a lot of bizarre things have been said over the last week, and we’re not responsible for that. The people whose mouths, those words, came out from, they’re the people responsible for that - most of them are journalists.
The thing is, Mr Mark… I understand your frustration, but the thing is we are trying to work out how much support is behind you and whether or not your party is divided over the issue.
Oh, look, I know some of you would love to be able to write a story that the party’s divided. This party and this caucus is rock solid – let me assure you of that, Lisa – and for a number of reasons. People need to acknowledge the good work that Tracey did. She was thrown in as a first-term MP into the deputy leadership role, and she gripped that. She has huge experience on the board which I don’t have, and I’m going to have to defer to her and take some guidance from her in that part of this role. But at the end of the day, deputy leader is a 2IC’s position. It’s about administration and logistics; it’s about lining up the troops and lining up the staff to make sure that we’re all going in the right direction for the boss so that when the boss says he needs something, it’s there. When he says he wants us somewhere, we’re there, and that’s really what it is – it’s a deputy leader’s role.
If Tracey Martin was doing such a good job, why did she have to go, then?
At the end of the day, it’s a democratic decision. People look at the candidates they have in front of them. They vote according to how they feel it should be, and that’s what happened. So it’s not for me, really, to answer questions like that. All I’ll say is that Tracey’s a strong member of our caucus. She always will be, and I can tell you from my time as the mayor when I invited her into Carterton, and I chaired meetings there, and subsequent to that, when I, even as an MP, invited her into Carterton to take speakers’ roles, where she performed superbly. I have the utmost respect for Tracey Martin, let me assure you of that. And so too do a lot of people in the education sector who have watched her work away for the last four years and seen the results. So just like when I lost the whips position back in whenever that was, it left me free to focus my portfolios, and I enjoyed that, and I was able to make some strong inroads in that. Mark my words, Tracey will be doing exactly that, and I’ll still be going to her for some advice in some areas, because she’s got a bit of institutional knowledge that I don’t have.
I suppose the thing is, Mr Mark, at some point the party is going to have to start thinking about life without Winston Peters.
Well, that point’s not too— I can’t see that on horizon right now, Lisa, because, you know, Winston’s yet to peak. He, against all the odds, after we got tossed out in 2008, he came back in 2011 against all the predictions, and I think this channel as well. 2011, he came back. 2014, he came back with more MPs. Now he’s just stormed the ramparts of Northland. Mark my words, he hasn’t finished yet, and if anyone thinks that Winston Peters is finished, all I’d say is smell the coffee.
Okay, so when Winston’s 99…
There’s more coming.
…and he decides that it’s time to stand down – 99 or 100 and he decides it’s time to stand down – will you be looking to step into the leadership role, or will it be Shane Jones?
I think I’ll be 90, and Shane will be older than me, so I guess it’ll be someone else then, Lisa.
But did you make the move now because Shane Jones is snapping at your heels?
Oh, Lisa. Look, I don’t even talk to Shane Jones, and, look, I didn’t make any move. At the start of every term every political party reaffirms its leadership appointments using a democratic process. And New Zealand First has been a bit late doing that because we’ve had a number of things on our plate, but we made a decision four weeks ago that we would tidy that up, and people who were wanting to stand for appointments put their hands up, and the caucus voted accordingly.
Just before we go—
At the end of the day, it was a democratic decision.
Just before we go, I just want to ask – where do you stand on the spectrum? Because before you decided to stand for New Zealand First, I mean, you were at the National Party conference, you were even approached by ACT, so are you more comfortable to the centre right than the centre left?
Oh, I’m really comfortable as a New Zealand Firster and partly because we’re conservative but very much because we have a compassionate side to us and strong social conscience.
Come on, Ron. Are you a possibility for working with the National Party?
I think New Zealand First, Lisa, could possibly work with any political party that’s prepared to do a deal that reflects more of our policies than they might want to consider. But, actually, our policies are all aimed at doing the best thing for New Zealand.
All right, it’s nice to talk to you this morning, Ron Mark, the deputy leader of New Zealand First. Thanks for joining us.

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